I'm Looking for thoughts on Distinctive features and Invisibility.

[prestidigitator]

For this specific case, I'd probably rule that the Disad is reduced from Non Concealable to Concealable with Effort or Easily Concealable (depending on the ease of use of the Invisibility). The Invisibility is specifically designed to hide the DF, so the DF is affected.

An alternate route is to forget buying Invisibility and just say that the DF is concealed if the character meets certain requirements (like not using his Powers or spending END) and buy it at the level appropriate to the method of concealment. I typically prefer this method over using a Power who's only purpose is to hide a DF. It reminds me of buying Extra Limbs (tenticles) on a character with PhysLim: No Arms and Legs.

How about adding a RSR to the Invisibility? Base it on Stealth, Concealment, Disguise, or a custom Power Skill. Maybe even forget the Invisibility as you say, and simply make it an application of such a suitable Skill.

[WhammeWhamme]

Hrm.

Being able to go Invisible USUALLY does not affect the concealability of a DF. This is because someone you can hear but not see is simply distinctive in a new way.

In this case, however, a Jedi looking at the Sith does NOT see 'someone with no Force in them', but someone with normal force relations. ( I think).

As such, the appropriate power would be shapeshift... except you don't need a power.

Just buy it as concealable: "Pay 1 End/Phase" or some such. That way they can't keep it up indefinately (well, maybe they can, but it saps their energy,, so they have to remain relatively inactive), but they can keep it up when they need to.

[McCoy]

Seems to me that Force users could detect each other, Vader detected ObiWan aboard the Death Star in Star Wars. Vader detected Luke, and Luke detected Vader detecting him, in Return of the Jedi.

BUT, it did take Vader a while to track down Obi Wan. And Luke was trying to conceal himself from Vader. So I would say there is precident for "Invisibility to Detect Force." I would require it to be bought with lockout, cannot use any other Force powers while the invisibility is on.

And yes, I would require any character with Invisibility to Detect Force to buy down their DF: Force attuned down to Concealable with major effort.

[WhammeWhamme]

Seems to me that Force users could detect each other, Vader detected ObiWan aboard the Death Star in Star Wars. Vader detected Luke, and Luke detected Vader detecting him, in Return of the Jedi.

BUT, it did take Vader a while to track down Obi Wan. And Luke was trying to conceal himself from Vader. So I would say there is precident for "Invisibility to Detect Force." I would require it to be bought with lockout, cannot use any other Force powers while the invisibility is on.

And yes, I would require any character with Invisibility to Detect Force to buy down their DF: Force attuned down to Concealable with major effort.

I don't think you'd need lockout. The Force Powers would still be visible to "Detect Force".

Incidently, the idea is that this is a power of the Sith - Vader wasn't sensed by Luke or Obi Wan, except when he searched for Luke over a huge distance (probably Mind Scan, a power visible to anyone with Mental Awareness; in the SWverse, that would be Jedi - we can probably write off Hoth as Luke not having developed it yet - he hadn't).

Obi Wan and Luke were probably hiding somewhat less well than a (trained) Sith could - I'm thinking they just managed to give him enough penalties to his roll, rather than outright concealing their nature.

[Dust Raven]

How about adding a RSR to the Invisibility? Base it on Stealth, Concealment, Disguise, or a custom Power Skill. Maybe even forget the Invisibility as you say, and simply make it an application of such a suitable Skill.

For my "jedi" types I've written up for various Champions/Star-Hero campaigns, I've usually just allowed the character a Force Knowledge (the Power Skill, based on EGO) to conceal their DF: Very Strong With The Force (concealable with effort, noticed by special senses).

One could keep their strength with the force concealed for a number of Phases (in combat) or Minutes (out of combat) per point they made the roll by, so long as they did not use any of their Force Powers. Making such a roll was a 0 Phase Action.

[prestidigitator]

Seems to me that Force users could detect each other, Vader detected ObiWan aboard the Death Star in Star Wars. Vader detected Luke, and Luke detected Vader detecting him, in Return of the Jedi.

BUT, it did take Vader a while to track down Obi Wan. And Luke was trying to conceal himself from Vader. So I would say there is precident for "Invisibility to Detect Force." I would require it to be bought with lockout, cannot use any other Force powers while the invisibility is on.

And yes, I would require any character with Invisibility to Detect Force to buy down their DF: Force attuned down to Concealable with major effort.

Vader detecting Obi-Wan seems to me to be an obvious indication that this is some kind of RSR or Skill roll; possibly an opposed one. Obi-Wan is obviously able to conceal himself, or he would have been exterminated along with all the other Jedi. I would guess that his ability to hide, combined with bonuses (or penalties for the searchers) due to his seclusion, is why he is still around in A New Hope.

I'm not sure either Luke or Vader are able to conceal their presence. Vader simply never felt the need, I'd guess, so even if he can, we wouldn't know of it. I suspect Luke simply detected him in Return of the Jedi and thought, "Oh man. If I can sense him, I'm sure he can sense me!" (an indication that he his not able to conceal his presence, or at least not able to do so very well).

I would have to guess that those Jedi who developed the ability to effectively conceal themselves would be those who had the need, meaning the Sith during the time of the Republic, and those Jedi with either the forsight or quick wit to develop the knack during the period that they were being hunted down and destroyed. Vader may or may not have needed to develop this skill (maybe we'll see in Episode Three).