The only thing is, the original poster asked how to make a nifty pig-sticker, not for a reasonable list of what uses one might find for monomolecular thread.Originally Posted by Agemegos
Millennial Master
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The only thing is, the original poster asked how to make a nifty pig-sticker, not for a reasonable list of what uses one might find for monomolecular thread.
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High Powered Superhero
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Day late and a dollar short on calling out that refrence....Originally Posted by Killer Shrike
Well, for starters I think you mean monomolocular. My shoe string is monofilament, and it's not going to cut anything any time soon.
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Powerful Hero
Junior Member
I pretty much agree 100% with Agemegos. The idea of a monomolecular wire/sword has always seemed a bit preposterous to me, even in Space Opera terms. As Agemegos pointed out, a monomolecular object would be incredibly weak. This is the same logic that a bullet a molecule in size would be able to penetrate any armor...think about that for a second. If this were true, air should be able to penetrate your armor a molecule at a time.
Kinetic energy = .5mass*velocity squared. If your mass is virtually zero, your kinetic energy is virtually zero, and you need that kinetic energy to pry apart the bonds of the molecules of whatever it is you want to cut. What everyone is thinking about when they think monomolecular blades can cut through anything is Pressure = Force/area. Since the area is virtually zero, they think that as the limit of the area approaches zero, the pressure approaches infinity. But they forget that the Force is also approaching zero because of the near masslessness.
I also agree with Agemegos that technological items (as well as magic in fantasy settings) must be thought through in terms of its ramifications. As the saying goes, "inconsistency is the hobgoblin of little minds". even if you say that this is high technology and akin to magic, and therefore is inscrutable to logic, common sense, or our current understanding of reality, you have to think about how this technology can impact everything else.
A monomolecular sword just breaks down too many things for me, and is beyond my suspension of disbelief.
Double Millennial Master
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Your suspension of disbelief.
Thats fine, but there's penty of people running around who think its a fine idea for a weapon, and apparently it isn't beyond their suspension of disbelief, so why not help a fellow gamer design an effective weapon writeup instead of raining on someone's parade.
Fun, not realism. Fun people! Games are for Fun!!!
Cosmically Powerful Superhero
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And the GM can quite reasonably reply, "Yep. Too bad the stuff can't be woven, or the filaments repel one another without a surrounding force field, or the only culture that produces it are proto Berserkers and don't believe in using armor."
No question that it is still rubber science or magic in its effect, but that is the purview of the GM.
Last edited by Mentor; May 30th, '05 at 09:31 AM.
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Powerful Hero
Junior Member
Sure, if it floats someone's boat to have stuff like that, more power to you. That's why there's often an unwritten and unspoken social contract. This social contract basically determines the level of realism and drama that your campaign will have. If everyone agrees with this unspoken contract, then the games will be all the more enjoyable.
However, I said what I said for those who may think that monofilament/molecular blades are realistic or plausible (at least in a near term technological sense). I remember when I was younger I didn't really question the technology or magic in games since I thought what was written was plausible. But if I was playing in a realistic or gritty campaign, I didn't want fluff stuff in my game.
I also tend to disagree with the idea that games are purely about fun. Games can be educational too (and yes, education can be fun). The best campaign I ever played was a Phoenix Command campaign set in the Vietnam War. Not only did I teach the players a lot of the history and culture of Vietnam, the atmosphere was rife with real life (player, not character) decision making. I had the players genuinely scared of combat and not wondering whether what they were doing was right or wrong.
The bottomline is that gamers should be exposed to all types of play styles. From the purely fantastic, escapist styles of games, to the realistic, gritty and educational types of gaming.
Powerful Hero
Junior Member
If one is intent on creating a monomolecular style blade (or rather, basically a sword that can cut through anything), why not do it like this.
I'd make it a penetrating and armor piercing hand killing attack, probably 2d6. If you really want to make it deadly, then make it a AVLD 1d6HKA that does BODY, with the defense being a force field or strong magnetic field. If you make the sword whiplike, then give it the Indirect advantage as well.
As for an explanation for how it works? Well, you're going to have to apply rubber science to make it work. And besides, why would you want a rationale for it anyways unless you want a suspension of disbelief? But if you insist, here's some ideas. Perhaps the blade can be reinforced by energy, such that the material bonds in the blade are strengthened. If the blade is metallic, it can use magnetic fields to achieve this, so it might theoretically be stronger than a carbon nanotube arrangement. Some sort of gravitic amplifier could make the blade heavier which would increase the kinetic energy behind the blade. I'd envision it as a wire with a ball at the end (so you can imagine where the blade is). When the sword isn't in use, you can retract the filament into the handle. If the sword is whiplike, you'll have to have some sort of visible aura around the whip, otherwise you'll likely wind up slicing yourself in half with your own invisible whip!!
Another option is a hacksaw like kind of sword, where you have a conventional metal rod which holds the monomolecular filament between the ends. This would also solve the problem of needing to increase the apparent mass of the sword, but it does present the problem of having the conventional blade getting in the way. Of course, the blade can't be whiplike in this fashion. Honestly, if such a thing were possible, I think this version would make the most sense.
Back on the radar
Senior Member
If you're going to do this, you might even reason that the monomolecular filament gets broken with every successful strike, and that a mechanism in the sword "re-strings" itself after every break. This could be a good rational for Fuel Charges...eventually your reel of monomolecular cord is going to go empty, and you have to put a new spool in the hilt of the sword.
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Double Millennial Master
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Absolutely.
Agreed. The level of realism depends on genre and playing style etc. I have mono-filiment (or what-have-you) blades in my Space Opera campaign, and probably in my Cyberpunk campaign, but not in my Gritty Space Marines campaign.However, I said what I said for those who may think that monofilament/molecular blades are realistic or plausible (at least in a near term technological sense). I remember when I was younger I didn't really question the technology or magic in games since I thought what was written was plausible. But if I was playing in a realistic or gritty campaign, I didn't want fluff stuff in my game.
This I also agree with.I also tend to disagree with the idea that games are purely about fun. Games can be educational too (and yes, education can be fun). The best campaign I ever played was a Phoenix Command campaign set in the Vietnam War. Not only did I teach the players a lot of the history and culture of Vietnam, the atmosphere was rife with real life (player, not character) decision making. I had the players genuinely scared of combat and not wondering whether what they were doing was right or wrong.
Although I think the main point of games (any kind of game) is fun, additional benefits can range from social companionship to education.
Most definately. However the last thing I want to see around here is people (not point fingers now) telling others what not to put into their games simply because it isn't plausible. I could understand if the original poster asks if something is or isn't plausible for a game involving real-science issues, but in general, it can and should be assumed that if a poster asks for a specific effect, they could care less whether or not the SFX are "plausible" and we should just try to help them out in any way we can. Leave the science lessons for those who ask for them! Or at the very least, mention it as an aside rather than trying to sound as if one is chastising the original poster for being ignorant of physics...The bottomline is that gamers should be exposed to all types of play styles. From the purely fantastic, escapist styles of games, to the realistic, gritty and educational types of gaming.
Double Millennial Master
Member
This is pretty close to how I justify this effect in my Star Hero games.
"Mono-blades" in my Space Opera campaign don't have mono-filament wires stretched along their edges or anything, how they work is that they are laser-sharpened along the edge to give them a mono-molecular edge. The blade itself is made of a rubber-science alloy which is also strengthened via a magnetic field (which consequently also allows the blades to parry energy bolts with little to no damage to the blade itself)
Even with a Magnetically strengthened blade of "Ridiculum" (I haven't named the alloy yet, but Adamantium is so tired, I want to find something new) the edges are brittle, so they tend to break in combat and need to be sharpened regularly. This is where the sheath comes in. The sheath has both a laser-sharpening system built in as well as maintenence nanites programmed to repair and maintain the blade for battle-readiness!
I write these blades up as +1 DC higher than the standard for their type (to represent their ability to cut flesh easily) and AP.
Thats all. Nothing too fancy.
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