Running Combat & Combat Management Sheet

[bushido11]

Can anyone give me an example narration of how combat is run in HERO?

Also, does anyone know where I can find some sort of combat management sheet?

[CrosshairCollie]

There was a combat sheet in Hero 4, but I haven't seen one since. Check rpgsheets.com.

[Syberdwarf2]

Originally posted by bushido11
Can anyone give me an example narration of how combat is run in HERO?

Also, does anyone know where I can find some sort of combat management sheet?

Hero 4th had a combat management sheet, as does the 5th edition supplement HERO System Resource Kit .

List the characters names, DEX, SPD, OCV, DCV, ECV, and have a little chart subdivided into 12 sections to represent the 12 segments.

Start by listing the characters in order of DEX from highest to lowest. If the same DEX comes up, then rank them by SPD (otherwise it doesnt matter).

Mark of in the subdivided chart when they have their Phases.

That way, you don't have to call out "Okay, DEX 19,18,17... character X it's your turn". As this allows others to determine the DEX of another character (beleive me it happens).

Just go by segment, looking at the first segment in which a character has a phase, starting at the top of the list. And don't forget to make them roll to see who goes first if they have the same DEX and SPD.

That's pretty much it. I would then suggest familiarizing yourself with the difference between zero, half, and full phase actions. Get comfortable with that, and then use the suggestions presented in FREd to help speed up combat and you're good to go.

Hope this helps.

[JohnTaber]

Hi Bushido: Fitz has a sheet that works pretty good on his site...here is a link...
Fitz's Hero Stuff

[bushido11]

Thanks Syberdwarf2. I figured it was pretty much like that, counting off the segments. I'm pretty comfortable with Zero-Phase, Half Phase, and Full Phase actions as they have similar counterparts in d20 (free action, half action, and full action). One thing I keep forgeting is to mark off END whenever a character does an attack or some other type of action. I think it would be too much a bother for counting the END loss for attacks and such, as they usually get recovered with a post-segment 12 recovery. I just wanted a basis of comparison on how other HERO players do it (since I've never run HERO). Also, with a sheet, it'll be easier to remember which phase everyone is on.

As for the link to Fitz's HERO System Stuff, I'm checking that out right now.

Thanks guys (and gals).

[Syberdwarf2]

Originally posted by bushido11
Thanks Syberdwarf2. I figured it was pretty much like that, counting off the segments. I'm pretty comfortable with Zero-Phase, Half Phase, and Full Phase actions as they have similar counterparts in d20 (free action, half action, and full action). One thing I keep forgeting is to mark off END whenever a character does an attack or some other type of action. I think it would be too much a bother for counting the END loss for attacks and such, as they usually get recovered with a post-segment 12 recovery. I just wanted a basis of comparison on how other HERO players do it (since I've never run HERO). Also, with a sheet, it'll be easier to remember which phase everyone is on.

As for the link to Fitz's HERO System Stuff, I'm checking that out right now.

Thanks guys (and gals).

Since you've never run HERO, why not just ignore END for right now? That way, you get used to the other stuff to the point it becomes second nature. Just make sure that the players understand that you'll be using it later (if you want to that is). We had a group that lasted (core members only) for about five years and we never once IIRC used END (except at conventions).

[TheEmerged]

Not yet -- but I'm in the process of finalizing what I'm calling the "Advanced Combat Narrative Example" for my web site. I hope to have it done & posted by Friday. Main trick right now is trying to work in as many examples of what can happen

Short & Simple version goes like this:

Arrange a list of everyone in the encounter, by DEX -- and if allowing the Hipshot & Hurry options, be sure to list the DEX.

At the beginning of each segment, determine who acts in that segment (by SPD).

If allowing the Hipshot & Hurry options, require declarations and make dice rolls now.

Start at the top of the list (possibly modified by Hipshot/Hurry) and work down -- each character getting their action. Note that they can hold their action to act at a later time.

[Pattern Ghost]

OK, I'll take a shot at a simple combat example. I'll use some Heroic level types and keep things very simple. We'll skip hit locations, encumberance,knockdown, bleeding, impairment, Endurance tracking, and basically anything that would slow us down. Just barebones stuff, which should be sufficient to run a few sample battles to get the basics out there.

The good guys will be a fighting type and a really crappy mage with one spell. The opposition will be three smelly orcs. We're doing this on the cheap, and groomed orcs simply cost too much.

First, some basic stats:

Fighter Guy

20 STR
18 DEX
15 CON
12 BDY
8 PD
4 ED
3 SPD
7 REC
30 STN
7" Running
Armor: Chain, Def 6, 11- (Helmet and hauberk)
Weapon: Sword, Damage 1d6+1, StrMin 12 (Gets +1 DC for STR, total of 1.5d6)
Levels: +1 w/All Combat, +2 w/Swords (3 pt. level)

Magic Guy

10 STR
15 DEX
13 CON
10 BDY
5 PD
5 ED
3 SPD
5 REC
22 STN
6" Running
Armor: Magic Robes, Def 4, 14- (Long robes)
Weapon: Dagger, Damage 1d6-1, StrMin 6
Spell: Flame Wad: 6d6EB, Area Effect: Hex. Gestures, Incantations, 4 Charges.
Levels: +1 w/Dagger (2 pt. level)

Smelly Orcs

15 STR
12 DEX
13 CON
10 BDY
5 PD
3 ED
2 SPD
6 REC
25 STN
6" Running
Armor: Smelly Hides, Def 4, 11- (Hides cover heads, hands, lower legs)
Weapon: Battle Axe, Damage 2d6, StrMin 13
Levels: +1 w/Axes (3 pt. level)


Ok, our smelly orcs are walking down the 10 foot wide corridor looking for intruders, and our fighter and magic type are intruding in another 10 foot wide corridor that runs parallel. The two groups each reach the head of their respective corridors at the same time. They look both ways before crossing, and spot each other. No need to roll Perception checks, since featureless ten foot wide corridors are so boring that almost anything stands out like a sore thumb. The two groups are 5" apart (10 meters). The Fighter and Mage are side by side, the Orcs marching in single file.

Combat begins on Phase 12.

Dex order is:

Fighter (18)
Mage (15)
Orcs (12)

Phase 12:

The Fighter decides to wait for the orcs to close before attacking, and holds his action.

The Mage makes a bunch of annoying sounds, hops around a bit, and casts his Fire Wad at the leading Orc. The glowing globe of wizardly flame flies from his hand. He needs to hit a Hex, so the DCV is 3. Since the Range is 5", the Mage has a -2 penalty to OCV. So... He needs to roll 11 + OCV (5-2) - DCV (3) = 11 or less to hit the hex. He rolls a 13, a miss. (I told you he was a crappy mage...). He missed, to the GM decides the shot was a little short, and hit the hex in front of the lead orc. This only took a half phase, but since he attacked, the Mage is done for the phase.

Orc 1 is a bit ticked by the Fire Wad, and decides to advance on the mage so he can chop him up. We're not worrying about which Orc goes first, because they're all minor guys, and it makes sense to move them in their march order. Orc 1 makes a half move and holds his second half phase, putting him 3" closer to the invaders, or 2" away. His companions do likewise, forming an inverted V behind him.

The Fighter decides to step up to the plate and take out the lead orc. He moves up to the Orc, which is a half move b/c he hasn't moved over half his 7" movement (4"), then he takes a swing. The orc decides to use his held half phase action to Block. The fighter puts all of his levels in offense, giving him an OCV of 9 (6 base, plus 3 levels), and a DCV of 6 (base only). The Orc puts his level into OCV, giving him an OCV of 5 and a DCV of 4. Since the Block will negate the Fighter's attack if it succeeds, we'll roll that first:

Orc rolls an OCV vs. OCV attack roll. 11 + OCV (5) - OCV (9) = 7 or less. Orc rolls an 11, and fails to block.

Now, the Fighter rolls his attack: 11 + OCV (9) - DCV (4) = 16 or less to hit. Fighter rolls a 7, which is ironic b/c that'd have worked for the Orc.

Now, instead of hit location, I've given the armor activation values per the armor table in Fred. So, we'll roll to see if the armor "activates," or to determine if the fighter hit an armored or unarmored area on the Orc. Activation roll is... a 5. Whew, good for the Orc.

The fighter rolls damage: A 2 and for the half die a 1 = 3 BODY. Stun multiplier roll is 5-1 = 4, so 12 STUN. The Orc's 4 rPD stops the Body damage, and his total of 9 PD stops most of the STUN. Only 3 STUN get through.

The remaining two Orcs still have half a phase left, and decide to run down the edges of the corridor (squeeeeezing past the Fighter) to flank the Mage. That ends their phase.

POST Segment 12.

Everyone gets a Post Segment 12 Recovery. Since we're not tracking END, we don't sweat it, just Recover STUN. Orc 1 has 3 STUN damage, and a Recovery of 6. So, he's back up to snuff post 12.

The next segment anyone can act is Phase 4. Both the Fighter and Mage can act.

Phase 4:

The Fighter goes first again. He decides to shift two of his levels to DCV this turn, and take another stab at Orc 1. That sets his OCV to 7 and DCV to 8. The Orc is still at DCV of 4, so the Fighter needs 11 + 7 - 4 = 14 or less to hit. He rolls a 10. We check the armor activation again an d get a 13! The fighter has landed a shot in an unarmored location. (We'll decide what it is after rolling damage.) The damage roll is (1.5d6) 7 BODY, and the STUN roll is (1d6-1) 4-1 = 3 for 21 STUN. Since the armor doesn't defend against the attack, the Orc takes the full brunt of the damage, dropping him to 3 BODY and 4 STUN. The Orc takes more STUN damage than his CON and is also Stunned. The Orc's DCV is halved to 2, and he cannot act until his next phase(segment 6), which he'll have to burn to recover from being Stunned. Of course, the Orc could have aborted to a Block or Dodge, but the GM (me) decided that his last phase made him a little overconfident, and besides, he's a minor character. Since I've decided the armor doesn't cover the lower arms or legs, and his neck/face, I'll just say the sword ripped a huge gash out of the Orc's thigh, sinking deep into muscle and bone. (Just for the sake of description, since we're not using the options for hit location and impairment. Can still do an on the fly call and say that the Orc's running will be impeded by the wound, but he's likely to die pretty soon anyway, so we won't bother.)

The Mage acts next. He decides to toast one of the orcs with another shot of Fire Wad. This time, he'll be attacking an adjacent hex (DCV 0), and have no range penalty. A smart orc would abort to a Dive For Cover at this point, but these aren't smart orcs and Dive for Cover is an optional move, so we're not using it right now. (But it's handy to keep in mind.) So, the Mage needs 11 + 4 (OCV) - 0 (DCV) = 15 or less. He rolls...11! Orc 2 takes a 6d6 FireWad to the ... well, to the orc, since it fills the hex. So, we roll Activation for the Armor (event though the special effect is partial coverage, the activation roll is still made), and get...11. So, the armor applies. Damage rolled is 23 STUN and 6 BODY, for a total of 13 STUN and no BODY damage. Orc 2 now has 12 STUN left.

Next segment anyone acts is on 6, which is the Orcs' turn.

We'll let Orc1 go first. He uses a full phase to recover from being Stunned.

Orc2, the Orc of Toastyness, decides to Grab the Mage to stop all that hopping around and waving of arms. He needs 11 + (4-1) - 5 = 9 or less to Grab the Mage. The Grab maneuver puts him at a DCV of 3. He rolls an...11. Oops.

Orc3 laughs at his bleeding and toasty partners and takes a swipe at the Mage, putting his level in OCV. He needs 11 + 5 - 5 = 11 or less to hit. He rolls...15. Some days Orcs have no luck.

Next... Phase 8. Fighter and Mage are up.

Fighter goes first, decides to finish off Orc1. Orc1 is bac k up to full DCV, having recovered from being Stunned on Phase 6. The Fighter decides to put all of his levels into OCV, so he needs 11 + 9 - 4 = 16 or less to hit. He rolls...11. Armor activation roll is 9. Damage roll is 5 BODY and for STUN he rolls 1-1 = 0 (minimum stun multiple is 1) for a total of 5 STUN. The Orc takes 1 BODY, dropping him to 2 BODY, and no STUN.

The Mage is next up, and decides to try to take out Orc2. He still needs a 15- to hit, and rolls a 6. Activation roll for the Orc's armor is a 7, so it activates. Damage is 26 STUN and 6 BODY. 17 STUN gets through the Orc's defenses (and no BODY), which is enough to K-O him, dropping him to -5 STUN. The mage has only one shot left of his Fire Wad spell.

Next phase anyone can go is 12. Everyone goes on 12. Everyone always goes on 12. Except Orc 2, since he's out cold. If he was a PC and not a minor Orc, we'd give him a post-12 Recovery, but since he's a bit player, we'll leave him out of the fight.

Fighter goes first, and takes another shot at Orc1, this time putting two levels with Swords into damage and the all combat level into OCV. This gives him an OCV 7, DCV 6, and a damage of 2d6. He needs an 11 + 7 - 4 = 14 or less to hit. He rolls... 8, and hits. Activation roll for the Orc's armor is a 14...going to REALLY suck to be an Orc. Damage roll is 8 BODY and .... well, Stun is immaterial since the Orc was just knocked to -6 BODY. Unless the PCs are really feeling generous and take time out to make a Paramedic roll, we'll just count him as dead. (Even though we're not using the Bleeding rule, common sense says... dead orc bit player, barring generous PCs.)

Mage goes next, and decides to use that last Firewad to soften up Orc3. Orc3 got cocky way back on Phase 6 and took a whack at the Mage, so he's still adjacent. So, that means the Mage still only needs a 15 or less to hit. He rolls...14. Activation for the Orc's armor is...a 10. Damage is 18 STUN and 3 BODY. The roll was three 5's and three 1's and ones don't do BODY. (Sixes do 2 BODY, and 2 thru 5 does 1 BODY, but you knew that b/c you read the book, right?) So, Orc3 takes 11 STUN after applying Armor and ED. That's not enough to Stun him.

Orc3 is up next. If he was a smart orc, he'd probably just surrender or run away, but he's not. He decides to take a shot at the Mage and try to take him out. He uses a Haymaker, which will add 4 DCs to his damage, and give him -5 on his DCV. He puts his level into OCV, giving him: 5 OCV, 0 DCV, and 3d6+1 damage. Orc3 needs 11 + 5 - 5 = 11 or less to hit. He rolls... 7! The attack won't land until Segment 1, however.

POST-Segment 12:

Mage Recovers 5 STUN, putting him at -8.
Orc3 Recovers 6 STUN, putting him at 20.

Segment 1, Haymaker Lands:

The Mage rolls activation for his Magic Robes...9. Damage is 11 Body and 44 STUN. The Mage takes 7 BODY and 35 STUN. Mage folds up like a cheap tent, and is at -13 STUN and 3 BODY.

Next Phase is 4. We'd probably want to stop the Mage from bleeding out at this point, but we're not using Bleeding rules, so...

Fighter decides to hack up Orc3. He moves 2" or so, and then Haymakers with his attack, throwing all three levels into DCV. This gives him an OCV of 6, DCV of 4, and Damage of 3d6+1 (Total of five DCs added. The sword is 1d6+1, which is 5 DCs, so the max that can be added is another 5 DCs from all sources, so Fighter can't use levels to boost damage since his STR and the Haymaker add up to 5 extra DCs) So, he needs... 11 + 6 - 0 = 17 or less. He rolls...8. Orc's armor activation roll is 15. Ouch. Going to suck to be him. Damage roll is...11 BODY and ... well, STUN doesn't matter, since the Orc is now at -1 BODY and out of the fight.

Fight's over. Time to bandage up Gimpy the Mage and hole up for a while...

Of course, that was way simplified and not terribly interesting from a game standpoint, b/c it was just a straight up head to head brawl. But combat can go pretty quick without all of the optional rules and by not tracking END. You can add in rules as you get used to the system to spice things up. Instead of armor based on Activation rolls, you can easily roll Hit Location and apply modifiers based on where the blow lands, though that requires a bit more looking up.

Knowing me, I made some stupid error in here, so if that happened, someone will hopefully correct it.

[Pattern Ghost]

I should probably add that although I skipped the STUN multiplier rolls for the hits that put the Orcs at negative BODY, technically it's possible that a bad roll there could leave them at -BODY but positive STUN, basically conscious but bleeding to death. Since I was cheaping out and streamlining things, I didn't roll the multipliers. Against a major villain or monster, it might be a good idea to roll STUN every time, though, just in case.

[bushido11]

Bravo on the sample combat! That was a fun and educational read. I think I'll save END expenditure for things like powers and such until I'm really used to them, but most casual uses of END will probably be recovered at the post segment 12 recovery.

I'm not a big fan of hit locations, and the armor's Activation Roll makes sense to me. I think I'll be using that (finally, a good reason for heroes to wear helmets).

I downloaded the combat record sheet from Champions off of rpgsheets.com. The other site's links didn't work (and I was looking forward to seeing them, too).

I showed HERO to one of my most stubborn friends, and when I told him he could make anyone with HERO, he was extremely intrigued. We laughed at the thought of having a party of Goku, Cyclops, a Gundamn, and Pikachu in a party, but I told him "Hey, you can do it with HERO." I'll make a couple of episodic adventures and see how it turns out. One thing I'm going to make sure to do is not drown the session with combat (mostly one combat per session, maybe two, since combat is like a fine wine which must be sipped slowly).

Once again, thanks a lot guys. I'm sure I'll have more inquiries in the near future and I'll be awaiting your wise counsel.

[Pattern Ghost]

Tell the Pikachu player to use the TV version b/c the rest of the Pikachus suck =)

[ShadowRaptor]

Originally posted by Pattern Ghost
Tell the Pikachu player to use the TV version b/c the rest of the Pikachus suck =)

There's more than one Pikachu???? Oh god, help us all now, the world is about to end.

I really liked that combat example. Perhaps you could do one with END playing a factor. Reading examples of combat is much more helpful than just reading pages of rules, and you showing us the effects of the segments and how they work really is truly helpful.

Who knows. Perhaps this can be a thread about how to run different kinds of combats with different kinds of examples to show all the various applications of the varous rules within the mighty tomb of FRED.

[Pattern Ghost]

Well, you've got the cartoon, the card game and the video game versions. The video game pikachu can level up, so he theoretically can be as "good" as the TV show pikachu (still not a great choice), but almost all iterations of the card game pikachu are pretty weak (low HP). Uh, enough of that...

Thanks for the praise. I'm almost 200% sure that there are others (many many others) better qualified to do one. OTOH, I have some mice to thaw out, so I may as well write another example with END rules. Since Heroic level games tend to be low SPD, usually 2-4 range, and low-END (though making spellcasters and other Power users pay extra END for spells and powers is an appealing idea to me), it's usually not a huge issue. I'll do a two on one supers fight instead. First, have to get those mice out of the freezer...brb

[Pattern Ghost]

OK, for this fight, we'll use the Amazing Microceph (drawn by Rob Leifield), a villainous brick, and our two heroes, Shock Mouse (a blaster w/electric powers), and White Lion (a MA). Unfortunately for our heroes, they're built on less points than the Amazing Microceph.

Here's everyone's basic stats:

The Amazing Microceph

60 STR
20 DEX
30 CON
15 BDY
5 INT
8 EGO
20 PRE
2 COM
30 PD
30 ED
4 SPD
20 REC
60 END
60 STN

Damage Resistance to 30 PD and 30 ED
Hardened PD and ED
Lack of Weakness -5
Life Support: Vacuum, High Pressure, Radiation, Heat, Cold
Mental Defense +15 (puny brain is tough to target)
+3" Leaping (15" total)
+5 Levels with Hand to Hand Combat
PS: Thug 11-
Various big dumb guy skills

===============================================

Shock Mouse

10 STR
24 DEX
15 CON
10 BDY
13 INT
11 EGO
15 PRE
18 COM
15 PD
30 ED
5 SPD
5 REC
50 END
25 STN

Shocking Multi: 45 Pt.Reserve
u. Low Amps: 6d6NND (+1/2, Defense is CON-Roll)
u. High Amps: 1d61RKA, +4 STUN Multiplier
u. Ball Lightning: 9d6 EB

Mouse Reflexes: +4 DCV
Mouse Scurry: +3" Running (9" total)
Mouse Ears: +2 to Hearing PER

+2 Levels w/Multipower

Various Mouse Skills


=================================================

White Lion

20 STR
27 DEX
20 CON
15 BDY
13 INT
14 EGO
18 PRE
12 COM
20 PD
10 ED
6 SPD
10 REC
40 END
35 STN

Lion Fu
Offensive Strike -2/+1 8d6
Charge +0/-2 6d6 + V/5, FMove
Fast Strike +2/+0 6d6
Martial Block +2/+2, Block, Abort
Killing Strike -2/+0 1d6+1 HKA

Find Weakness w/MA 14-

Running +6" (10" total)
Leaping +4" (8" total)

+1 to all PER

+2 w/MA

Various Lion Skills

=================================================

OK, I'm going to post our contestants, then hit the hay. Tomorrow, I'll post the battle.

The setup: Mouse and Lion are patrolling their rooftop haunts when they see the Amazing Micro-Ceph carrying an armored truck through an unused aquaduct (as in T2). Poor Microceph hasn't figured out how to open the thing since he stole it, so he's taking it to his friend Dr. Azzbrain to figure out how to get to the goods.

Visuals: Microceph is an extraordinarily muscular man with a teeny-tiny head. Lion and Mouse are a male/female team who wear themed spandex costumes. Lion's tawny spandex has a mane and a claw logo across the front, and Mouse's is gray with mouse ears on top. Her logo would be a copyright infringement if it weren't permanently wrinkled beyond recognition by her comic book curves.

Stay tuned!

[ShadowRaptor]

staying tuned!