Special Powers in Power Frameworks

[zornwil]

I pay it no mind, basically, except for looking for of course real problems, and some of these are easy to see as problematic (Duplication's a good one). Still, I don't really pay attention to the list as such or the rule as such, I just review the character sheet. I'm with Markdoc, basically, who stated it quite well just above.

[CourtFool]

When I first started playing Hero (4th Edition) I thought Power Frameworks were extremely broad. I thought 'Mutant' was a good enough excuse for a Power Framework. I can not tell you how many characters I built with all of their Characteristics in a Elemental Control. Because of this, I did not understand why special powers required special permission to be allowed.

I have since tightened my scope on Power Frameworks, however, it sounds like I am still far too broad compared to many others here on the board. It does make me wonder if this just gives an 'unfair' advantage to people who are a little more creative in skirting the rules. You may not allow a 'Mutant' to put Armor, Energy Blast and Flight in a Multipower but you would let 'Powered Armor Guy'.

I think this has been covered in other threads, so I will stop now.

[Black Lotus]

As I'm new to the rules and still need to do a thorough review of the Power Frameworks section, I find this all quite confusing. Aside from the simple bits, such as "That's probably to prevent characters from a having a Multipower with every possible sense, which is clearly abusive, yet extremely attractive."

I'm just glad that I am mainly a science fiction/ post-apocalypse kind of guy. If I were planning on running supers anytime soon... whew.

[AmadanNaBriona]

I've allowed virtually every power on the list in a framework at one point in time or another. Duplication and Luck are the two that require the most justification from me.

Heck, my longest running character, Blackjack, was a gadgeteer that had MOST of those restricted powers in his gadget pool at one point or another. Once again excepting Duplication and Luck. (Actually, I toyed with the idea of a clone tank using duplication, but in the end decided that the rubbeer science quotient was getting to large and backed off.)

I tend to be very liberal with what I allow as long as its well justified and not abusive. I'm even inclined to often allow frameworks INSIDE of frameworks if it plays well (guns with multiple functions in a gadget pool, for instance).

[zornwil]

I've allowed virtually every power on the list in a framework at one point in time or another. Duplication and Luck are the two that require the most justification from me.

Heck, my longest running character, Blackjack, was a gadgeteer that had MOST of those restricted powers in his gadget pool at one point or another. Once again excepting Duplication and Luck. (Actually, I toyed with the idea of a clone tank using duplication, but in the end decided that the rubbeer science quotient was getting to large and backed off.)

I tend to be very liberal with what I allow as long as its well justified and not abusive. I'm even inclined to often allow frameworks INSIDE of frameworks if it plays well (guns with multiple functions in a gadget pool, for instance).

Re Luck...what if it's a Luck Framework?

(I've seen it, I'd allow it...)

[CourtFool]

Re Luck...what if it's a Luck Framework?

I was wondering that too. Scarlet Witch anyone?

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re Luck...what if it's a Luck Framework?

(I've seen it, I'd allow it...)

that's justification enough for me.

Heck..I'll usually allow both duplication and luck to be used in a magic pool, depending on the constructs involved. I'm pretty easy most of the time.

[Bloodstone]

I believe that may be one of the reasons why spell casting PC's always get an eyebrow raise from me and the GM.

Nothing worse then telling a mutant or alien PC that he can't have a certain power construct due to the defined SFX of his character and then having some magic based player ask for the exact same thing. Then if you say no they often cop the attitude of "Dude, it's magic! Magic can do ANYTHING!"

[AmadanNaBriona]

I believe that may be one of the reasons why spell casting PC's always get an eyebrow raise from me and the GM.

Nothing worse then telling a mutant or alien PC that he can't have a certain power construct due to the defined SFX of his character and then having some magic based player ask for the exact same thing. Then if you say no they often cop the attitude of "Dude, it's magic! Magic can do ANYTHING!"

Nahh... I'd let Rogue have either one in her mutant Mimic pool too, assuming she found someone to mimic with the appropraite power. I know shes done Luck (A lot back when Longshot was on the team), and I think shes done duplication (Maddox the multiple man, IIRC)

It all depends on the justification.

[Black Lotus]

I believe that may be one of the reasons why spell casting PC's always get an eyebrow raise from me and the GM.

Nothing worse then telling a mutant or alien PC that he can't have a certain power construct due to the defined SFX of his character and then having some magic based player ask for the exact same thing. Then if you say no they often cop the attitude of "Dude, it's magic! Magic can do ANYTHING!"

That's one of the reasons I feel a GM should put together either spell lists of his own design -- with the Frameworks in which they may be inserted -- or at the very least, defined "schools" of magic with set SFX descriptions. You can allow a little freedom within that, but if you just let people take Powers with "Magic" SFX without a pre-designed system, you can run into these little problems.

[Vondy]

I ask three questions about any construct that is placed in a power framework:

1) does it fit the concept and defined sfx?
2) does it fit the general power level and tone of the campaign?
3) is it a dink maneuver?

In most cases a special power can easily pass the test for questions 1 and 2. When one does I then consider dinkishness. In general, I would react (very) badly to multiform, duplication, or luck in a power framework. Most of the other powers, however, are worth considering and can be justified in some circumstances. For instance, why shouldn't a telepathy power pool allow the mentalist to purchase some mental defense (within reason)?

[Bloodstone]

For instance, why shouldn't a telepathy power pool allow the mentalist to purchase some mental defense (within reason)?

IMO, no good reason, so long as FF's that provide mental DEF exist. Mind you, usually when I have seen Mental DEF put in a pool, it has Costs END lim attached to it, but not always.

The concept of a telepath having to open his mind and let down some of his defenses in order to do an in depth metal probe or attack is a pretty common construct that, IMO, works in an MP.

[shadowcat1313]

I dont have a problem with enhanced senses in power frameworks, especially for things like vehicle sensor arrays and such, all the sensor packages in the Star Hero books are built as VPP's, as a GM I just want a good explanation for why your putting them in a framework,

I dont allows sensors in a vpp in most cases... unless its some kind of cosmic power pool, or a really high tech configurable array

[CourtFool]

The concept of a telepath having to open his mind and let down some of his defenses in order to do an in depth metal probe or attack is a pretty common construct that, IMO, works in an MP.

But it seems to me that Mental Defense in a MP would mean that his mind was open most of the time. He would actually have to focus (assign points to the slot) to defend himself. Of course I see nothing wrong with this reasoning either.

[Bloodstone]

The actual character I'm thinking of has Menatal Defense normally. With his Ego it's about 15 total. He then has a slot in his MP that tacks on an extra 25 Mental Def (for a grand total of 40).

By defualt, he is always using the "extra" 25 mental DEF, unless he needs to open his mind when he is using one of the other powers in that particular MP.

I'd have to look at the character write up to get the exact numbers and such though.