Special Powers in Power Frameworks

[shadowcat1313]

DC Heroes has a power called Mind Shield that amounts to a mental only force field that can be used on others, an active defense of this nature makes good sense for an MP or VPP

[Roy_The_Ruthles]

I'm just about to run a one shot jedi game, and i'm gonna let them buy enhanced senses in an MP

[bblackmoor]

DC Heroes has a power called Mind Shield that amounts to a mental only force field that can be used on others, an active defense of this nature makes good sense for an MP or VPP

In Hero that would be a Force Field, Usable By Others, that grants Mental Defense. That's permitted in a Power Framework. What's not normally permitted are cheap, persistent, Costs-No-Endurance special defenses like Mental Defense, Power Defense, and Lack Of Weakness -- and for good reason, I think.

[Hawksmoor]

In Hero that would be a Force Field, Usable By Others, that grants Mental Defense. That's permitted in a Power Framework. What's not normally permitted are cheap, persistent, Costs-No-Endurance special defenses like Mental Defense, Power Defense, and Lack Of Weakness -- and for good reason, I think.

Force Wall (MD) would be more like it. Ignore the "Stun" and compare body totals. Although for balance you might want to double the cost of Special Defenses when used with Force Walls.

Hawksmoor

[zornwil]

I'm just about to run a one shot jedi game, and i'm gonna let them buy enhanced senses in an MP

That's fine, but you're not playing HERO anymore, call it what you will...

I just didn't think anyone pulled that particular condescension out so thought I would!

To answer, though, more on topic, as to the subset of messages above about how one concept doesn't get a set of powers in a framework while another does...well, that's okay. In theory and in practice there should be balance. As someone said, it's in the details, as it's not so much that "mutant" can't have a Duplication ability (Rogue being a great example), it's just not going to be the same implementation as for a magician. To me it's more important that the concept be defined well enough to be limited in scope and fair in implementation. There should be things that one type of player can do that another can't, but there shoiuld also be some drawbacks of course for that first player. I grant that "magic" can be very vague; I like to see players define how their PCs' magic works, what its source is. Then it becomes easier to define and to reasonably scope it. Even then, I don't disagree that magic is still tricky, and I think it's incumbent on GMs to be up front with players about the potential for their character to be too much "everything man", this being a concern more about RPing than it is about rules per se, really. Then GMs and players should keep an open line of communication and be ready to modify as the concept plays out. Magic users should be encouraged to develop particular schticks just as any class of character.

Personally, btw, I would like to regurgitate (my, that sounds unattractive) an idea someone else posted on the boards, sadly I forget who first proposed it, that there be corresponding Disads for ECs, and this could be broadened to other Frameworks. I think most often this happens anyway, just informally. GMs could demand it be formalized. And these Disads really can help define the PC's scope. So, for a mage who uses dimensional energies, perhaps a Disad helping to justify the Framework is "Easily confused about where he is", this being exacerbated if he has many Summons in play - he's so used to being in different versions of the same reality he loses touch with using his related powers or having others use the same powers on the battlefield! Or that sort of thing. Perhaps not the best example, but I wanted to illustrate that it can be as much mind/personality and still define/limit the character and his power usage as it can be a specific Vulnerability or the like.

PS - I also think I picked this because in my prior supers campaign we had a time manipulator who would sometimes get confused about just what the "real" time was. It was great, they'd be in combat and something would happen or some mental manipulator would cause the slightest confusion, and he'd do someting like disappear for a couple phases to go check the atomic clock!

[Hugh Neilson]

That's fine, but you're not playing HERO anymore, call it what you will...

Well, anyone who interprets the rules differently from me, or adopts house rules different from mine, isn't really playing Hero any more anyway.

I just didn't think anyone pulled that particular condescension out so thought I would!

Oh, you were kidding... never mind, then...

To answer, though, more on topic, as to the subset of messages above about how one concept doesn't get a set of powers in a framework while another does...well, that's okay. In theory and in practice there should be balance.

BINGO! Especially in a VPP, I think the player needs to define what his VPP can and cannot do, fleshing out beyond simply "It's Magic", or "It's fire-based". To the extent that listing cuts off options I would consider legitimate for a "do-anything cosmic VPP", I some limitation may be warrented on the control cost based on the overal resrictions.

"Magic" can be especially fuzzy. One mage might use (your example) dimensional energies, and another might be a genie who draws on the inherent magic of the universe. I suspect the latter will be more limited than the former and, if so, this should manifest itself in a (greater) limitation on control cost. The former may require greater time to change slots (hmmm..how do I do this again) and/or require a skill roll to do so, while the latter may know all his spells cold and switch with a zero phase automatically (and had paid for advantages to do so). A "plain vanilla" VPP (pool plus control cost w/ no advantages or limitations) would be pretty rare in my vision.

[bblackmoor]

Force Wall (MD) would be more like it. Ignore the "Stun" and compare body totals. Although for balance you might want to double the cost of Special Defenses when used with Force Walls.

Are you aware that a Force Wall that grants special defenses can be blown down by other special attacks (such as Flash), unless it is bought with the appropriate Advantages (or also grants those other special defenses)? Even then, buying defenses in a Force Wall is already pretty expensive. I wouldn't bother making them more so, unless it became a problem in play.