Some questions which are coming up.

[kuoshu]

We need some clarification here, seems simple enough, but causing a bit of confusion. I've searched for answers, but to no avail. So here are the points of this email for future searchers. ( nonrecoverable charges, charges not recoverable )

Charges can be either
... an advantage (lots of them, no end cost)
... a disadvantage (only a few per day)
... a major disad (only a few, and non-recoverable)

Heroic Campaign:
Buy a wand with no recover charges, it runs out, buy another wand with your funds no character point problems. How does this balance out in a heroic campaign?

Superhero campaign:

pay character points for wand, it runs out of nonrecoverable charges...... What happens to those character points? Are they lost for good?

My guess would be yes, you were stupid and tried to conserve character points, now you got burned. Remove those points from your character total.

I was wondering how people handled this. My guess here is during build the GM should prevent the player from making that mistake by requiring a change, or at least attempt to by explaining the danger if no change is made.

Kuoshu

[Simon]

You're misunderstanding recoverable Charges.

Recoverable reduces the value of the Charges Limitation (or increases the value of the Advantage, as appropriate). It is not applied to Charges by default.

Recoverable Charges are meant to represent Charges which you expend during combat, but can recover outside of combat, given appropriate time. Things like throwing knives, arrows, etc.

Charges without the Recoverable Adder recover once per day/session (as appropriate).

If you want something like the wand you mention above, you take Charges with the rather large negative Adder of "Charges Never Recover" -- then once you use it up, it's gone. Any character points that you spent on it are "gone for good" -- which is why you received such a large discount on the price.

[Roy_The_Ruthles]

the -2 limitation (charges never recover) means that in a superheroic game, the charges never come back, you've spent the points, thank you play again.

There is another variable limitation called "charges are hard to recover" or something, which is how you might do bullets. You don't get bullets at the begining of every day, you get them when you go to the store and buy them (if you were playing super heroic)

For heroic games, you usually don't need to worry about this, because since they arn't getting them with character points, you have control over their rarity and appearance. Currently in one game i'm in, you can't get any 1 use items really (at least magical sort) unless you make them yourself (and all of us love our XP too much). In another, there are expendible items like grenades and bombs, and you buy them with money. It hasn't been a problem except when we run low on money to buy missles for our starship.

[kuoshu]

Ok, I did understand the idea of the charges can not be recovered, and that is what I was asking bout.

If a Super character buys with character points a non-recoverable charge item (wand for instance) and uses those charges, they are out of a wand, and those points. Does their sheet get changed to reflect the fact that they are a 340 point character rather than a 350? I'd guess not, and as I stated, I would expect that the GM should try to prevent that from happening during character build. If the player persists on spending those last 10 points on that, then Caveat Emptor.

Ok, it's as I thought, a bit harsh, but commonly sensed.

K

[Hawksmoor]

The never recovers limitation is just a different veiw of Independent. The points are locked up in the power. Use up the power and the power is gone.

If the player was not aware of this allow them to take the points back and rebuild a more acceptable power. Perhaps with the expedble but recoverable charges option requiring the wand or like be rebuilt at a lab. This rebuilding could take days.

Hawksmoor

[Hugh Neilson]

Hawksmoor aptly compares "charges never recover" to "Independent". Both provide a significant point break at the cost that the power can be lost permanently, and the points spent with it.

My problem with these types of abilities is simple: the character gets a huge point break, and is thus far more powerful than the other characters, who have powers which will not be lost over time. When the powers are gone, the character is much weaker than the others. What happens then? Why, "NonRecoverable Charge Man" retires, and his player builds a new character.

For that reason, I don't allow the limitations in point based games. In "buy it for cash" games, it makes no difference what the limitation is since the characters aren't using character points, but cash. Impose whatever limits you want on the items - their point values are irrelevant.

[Roy_The_Ruthles]

i don't like to use either lim for the same reason, eventually you'll be far less powerful, and in the short term, more powerful, but it works fine for a wizard who wants to make scrolls for example

[Zed-F]

I always thought Independent and Charges Never Recover are perfect for situations where the GM gives a character bonus XP that must be spent in a particular way. For instance, your fantasy dwarven character finds a magic stone that seems suitable to fashion into a warhammer. You can decide what kind of warhammer you want and get a cost break on the RP required to buy it based on the amount of XP locked in the stone. However, the item is irreplaceable if lost.

I would generally not allow characters who don't acquire 'found xp' in this fashion to sink more than a few CP into an independent or charges don't recover item, for exactly the reasons Hugh mentioned.

[atlascott]

"There is another variable limitation called "charges are hard to recover" or something, which is how you might do bullets. You don't get bullets at the begining of every day, you get them when you go to the store and buy them (if you were playing super heroic)"

Bullets in the scenario described above are regular old recoverable charges, in my book. Buy a few boxes of ammo. Use up what you carry, but you have to go back to the base, or any gun store, to get some more readlily-available ammo. The exception would be if you were playing in a post-apoc. game world where you CANNOT just go to a store, but instead had to mix your own gunpowder, and do your own reloads. THis requires know how, equipment, and materials that might not be very available at all in a post apocalypse world. Thus 'hard to recover'

[Hugh Neilson]

"There is another variable limitation called "charges are hard to recover" or something, which is how you might do bullets. You don't get bullets at the begining of every day, you get them when you go to the store and buy them (if you were playing super heroic)"

Bullets in the scenario described above are regular old recoverable charges, in my book. Buy a few boxes of ammo. Use up what you carry, but you have to go back to the base, or any gun store, to get some more readlily-available ammo. The exception would be if you were playing in a post-apoc. game world where you CANNOT just go to a store, but instead had to mix your own gunpowder, and do your own reloads. THis requires know how, equipment, and materials that might not be very available at all in a post apocalypse world. Thus 'hard to recover'

I agree the bullets would get no extra limitation in a modern day campaign. It would just change the recovery method from "once per day automatic" to "whenever the character has a chance to replenish his ammo".

Similarly, if the character wanted the bullets to be an Expendable Focus, the focus limitation wouldn't increase because the replacement focus is easy to obtain.