Spacecraft and END

[Black Lotus]

Okay, here's my problem. When simulating power sources for spacecraft, you have two options: buy ship systems with 0 END; or buy them with an END cost, and buy an Endurance Reserve for the ship. That in and of itself is fine, but Star HERO goes on to mention that when calculating the END consumption of systems that are always in operation -- life support, gravity, etcetera -- you treat those essential systems as Constant Area of Effect Attacks, and pay END for them on each of the ship's Phases.

That makes no sense to me, and here's why: Why should a ship with SPD 4 pay more END per Turn for its Life Support and artificial gravity than a ship with SPD 2? After all, it shouldn't cost twice as much END to distribute the same amount of air, generate the same amount of artificial gravity, etcetera -- for example, in two freighters with the same crew complement and of comparable mass, the ship with SPD 4 will pay twice as much for its constant systems as a ship with SPD 2, even though the same amount of air/ gravity must be generated.

I've thought of a few solutions. One is to make "constant" systems cost 0 END, and to have only "dynamic" systems cost END to use: weapons, shields, engines, etcetera. BUT, the problem with that lies in the shields: why should it cost two ships with different SPDs, but the same mass, different amounts of END to sustain the same strength of shielding for the same amount of time? Another solution is just to use the assumption the game makes for characters when out of combat: everyone acts on SPD 2. That way, no matter what its speed, ships pay for constant systems twice per Turn. Of course, weapons and other such systems cost END as they are used.

What do you think?

[Chris Goodwin]

Yet another reason why SPD for vehicles is a bad idea.

[Black Lotus]

Yet another reason why SPD for vehicles is a bad idea.

Chris, if you know a good way to remove SPD from the equation, let me know. If vehicles had no SPD, neither could characters, because they have to sync during combat and chases and the like. And I like the fact that some characters act faster than others.

Any ideas?

[Roy_The_Ruthles]

well here's the very simple way Lord Zod is running his Sci-Fi game (mind you it's a space opera more than hard sci fi so it's more flexible)

1 kg of starship fuel costs $150

Starship fuel is anything that powers a starship :P

1 kg will let you travel 10 lightyears, power your ship for 1 month (excluding active shielding (which we built as "costs end only to activate"), energy weapons, and Sub-light drives (which all take charges))

or 1kg will give you 720 charges (for use of said systems mentioned above)

[John Desmarais]

Chris, if you know a good way to remove SPD from the equation, let me know. If vehicles had no SPD, neither could characters, because they have to sync during combat and chases and the like. And I like the fact that some characters act faster than others.

Any ideas?

[HOUSERULE]
For the sake of perpetual systems (like life support) assume that all vehicles have a SPD of 12. FOr non-perpetual system, such as those that only get used in comabt, assume that all vehicles have an effective SPD equal to the SPD of the pilot.
[/HOUSERULE]

[Black Lotus]

[HOUSERULE]
For the sake of perpetual systems (like life support) assume that all vehicles have a SPD of 12. FOr non-perpetual system, such as those that only get used in comabt, assume that all vehicles have an effective SPD equal to the SPD of the pilot.
[/HOUSERULE]

Isn't 12 a bit much, though? I'd considered using SPD 2, as you read. Could you explain the reasoning behind SPD 12 as constant?

[Chris Goodwin]

Chris, if you know a good way to remove SPD from the equation, let me know.

I gave you one before (segmented movement).

This is, what, the third thread talking about how SPD used with vehicles gives unexpected responses. This is the third thread on which I've brought up the fact that SPD is broken when used with vehicles.

If you insist on using SPD for vehicles, allowing them to reduce their SPD to 2 out of combat is a valid solution.

Or just treat it all as if it were movement; vehicles don't pay END for their movement.

If you're using segmented movement for vehicles, assume that vehicles spend END every segment for any of their active Powers (effectively, SPD 12). Or buy them to 0 END Cost (alternately, you could apply the "Only While Connected To Vehicle Power Supply" Limitation to the 0 END Cost Advantage).

[bigdamnhero]

Isn't 12 a bit much, though?

Just means you have to buy a bigger END Reserve. It's not like you're paying character points for it.

Seriously, I think either one will work, just depends on how you prefer to handle the mechanics. I prefer to make all "perpetual" systems SPD 3, just because most characters (and therefore, most ships) will be acting on SPD 3 and that way I can do the END costs all at once. Also that way the END costs for perpetual systems are easily comparable to END costs for weapons, etc.


bigdamnhero
"What the hell are we supposed to use, man? Harsh language?"

[Fox1]

Yet another reason why SPD for vehicles is a bad idea.

Indeed.

[John Desmarais]

Isn't 12 a bit much, though? I'd considered using SPD 2, as you read. Could you explain the reasoning behind SPD 12 as constant?

It was completely arbitrary (it would, however, guarantee that every system in the ship would be active and available on ANY phase that a character might be active).

[Black Lotus]

It was completely arbitrary (it would, however, guarantee that every system in the ship would be active and available on ANY phase that a character might be active).

Good point. The only diffculty I see with it is the challenge of "rerouting power" to systems, such as turning off Artificial Gravity and using the increased END for Shields or Weapons: those systems use so much END (since they use END every Phase) that it takes comparably less power to, say, fire a weapon. So turning OFF those SPD 12 systems can give your guns a lot of oomph.

Still, I'll have to playtest it and see how it works.

(But your way makes logical sense, though).

[Hugh Neilson]

Instead of having Life Support cost END, take a -1/4 limitation that it has the Side Effect of draining x END per turn from the ship's batteries (or "costs X END per turn" for -1/4). This divorces the Life Support, for example, from Speed.

[Black Lotus]

Instead of having Life Support cost END, take a -1/4 limitation that it has the Side Effect of draining x END per turn from the ship's batteries (or "costs X END per turn" for -1/4). This divorces the Life Support, for example, from Speed.

Hmmm, now that's an idea.

[Black Lotus]

Yep, that's how I'd design everything now. Life support, sensors, propulsion, etc. They'd all use a fixed amount per turn. If the total is 50 per turn then you know you need at least 50 rec on your battery for normal operations.

Then in combat situations I'd have ships operate at the speeds of the character doing something. If the helm pilot has a 3 speed then the ship can turn/maneuver as a 3. Same with gunners and other crew. So when you brings guns and shields online you know exactly how much end per turn needs to be sacrificed from other systems to make it all happen.

I wouldn't change propulsion to END/ Turn, since you can vary your velocity. It's fair to pay END for the distance you move each Phase, because it always adds up to the total Inches/ Turn. Plus I use realistic velocity optional rule in many of my Sci-Fi campaigns.

[Black Lotus]

I changed the wording to "common" propulsion before you posted. That's the movement of the ship when it's just traveling at Warp 6, or whatever. In combat I'd make the ship pay for the movement based on the helmsman's speed. So basically you'd have 2 types of engines in a MP:

Impulse Engines Multipower
1) Maneuvering Engines: 50" Flight, side effect [costs 20 end per turn]: -1/4
2) Combat Engines: 50" Flight, costs end, x2 end [20]: -1/2

Then do the same thing with however you want to handle ftl flight.

So the stress of the engines in combat would use 60 end for a 3 speed pilot or 20 end just when doing normal, non-combat, maneuvers per turn.

Oh good, then I agree. My minimum would be pretty low, though: "Maximum Port Speed" or the like. Or, I could just wing it when the ship has to move really slow for whatever reason.

Yeah, I was thinking about working a standard speed in there somehow. Thanks for bringing that up.