First Time Mastering HERO (and new player)

[Dr Divago]

I've soon read this topic, and i've some similar problem (i put this in a new topic to respect about original one)

I'm about to starting a cyberpunk campaign (some of you are not surprised: my posts ratio has been greatly incresed last mont )
But i've a problem: even if i'm GM from 1992, and i've Hero from 2000, this is first time mastering Hero, and player's are unfamiliar with system...

Positives:
1) all are pretty familiar with setting
2) i'm using Heroic setting, and no power/magic/special talent (only buyable superequipment) so building characthers are more simpler
3) a player has and knows (little) FREd, and he knows (and has a master background in) Hero 3 or 4.
4) it's only for few month, and player knows that are "guinea pig"
5) player have worked on characther concept BEFORE seeing what can be done with system

Negatives:
1) players insisted in create own Charachter («i cannot play with a PC made by another person!!» says...)
2) one insisted in using Martial Arts, in using UMA 'cause he want to be a martial tai Ch'i Ch'uan artist. And another is a pro wrestler
3) cyberware are increasing power availables for PC (expecially with money factor not directly under my control...)
4) player insist to playing "cyberpunk 2020 style" choosing equipment basing on Chromebook instead of from my files (wich reflect statysthic in Hero forms)
5) in my opinion, are not so disponible to test new system... i mean: answering to direct question are saying "yes i'm glad to test this system" but i think are thinking "this system suck, i'm playing to make you happy, and never play again"

So: how can i give player some positive feeling?
How can i give positive impression about system? (PC are build, well, 2 on 3... and two weeks that we cannot play 'cause some imprevedible circumstances...)

I don't use Knockback/down, Bleeding, Impairing wounds
I use END but cybers, weapons and like does not use END so little tracking
i use SPEED but for choice SPD are limited to 2 or 3 (4 under particular circumstances, and yes, no one can have SPD4 in this adventure) and i can tkeep trace of SPD during encounter
Story are focalised about "investigation with some action" so little fight, and sometimes with lesser opponent (PC are built in 75+75 points; first fight is with 45 or like points NPC... 60 for chief...) but fight and action are present

If you want, i'll give some information about story...

[Ura-Maru]

This doesn’t sound good, I’m afraid.

-#2 and -#5 sound particularly bad. A pure martial artist is pretty close to being a genre-breaker right there, let alone a pro-wrestler. Both sound unfortunately like people who don’t like the genre going out of their way to kill it.

This is, unfortunately, a consistent problem with setting up champions-type games. It’s hard enough to get the silver-agers and the iorn-agers to play in the same game world, without some @&&#*% having to show how funny they are and stupid the genre is by playing a Superfriends reject.

Unfortunately, there’s no real cure, beyond exposing people to the cooler aspects of the genre and hoping they start to like it. Ultimately, everyone at the should be able to tolerate the genre being played in, even if that means playing AD&D style fantasy over and over.

The big problem with #3 can be avoided by making characters pay for cyberware with points. Not the whole cost, but at least part. If they go over what they can pay for, (and nothing’s going to stop them) then they either can’t use it effectively, or start picking up extra disadvantages. Starting with ‘Obsession With Abstracts’ and ending with ‘Wants To Kill All Humans.’

How much money are you starting them with, anyway? You didn’t let anyone buy the Wealth perk, did you?

#4 isn’t too bad a problem, as long as you make clear they’re buying your version of the toys, not the 2020 version. Make sure they know what everything they actually bought will actually do in the game, especially where it’s different from what the old version did.

The problem is that this might be interpreted as ‘Dr. D’s fancy new system can’t even make this stuff right!’ That’s a problem with all game conversions, though. Generally I’d advise trying to copy over the look-and-feel, without worrying too much about keeping everything working exactly the same.


#5, Well, there’s a couple of things that can be done here. Make up a combat cheatsheet for everyone, with the basic combat process and all their standard attacks and maneuvers written up, so when you ask ‘What DCV do you hit?’ they don’t think you’re talking in tongues. Don’t just put the numbers, though; include how Block works and such.

A second cheatsheet, with basic game concepts, (like what the stats mean) wouldn’t be bad, either. Aside from character creation, Hero really isn’t that complicated, so you should be able to squeeze everything important for each character onto an extra page or two.

Ultimately, though, if they don’t like the system, then they don’t like it. You can, and should, put the best face on it you can, but they might not like it, no matter what you do.

---
“So Vermont was the center of the dystopia?!�
“Yes. Ben & Jerry’s was the key to the apocalypse.�

[Dr Divago]

-#2 and -#5 sound particularly bad. A pure martial artist is pretty close to being a genre-breaker right there, let alone a pro-wrestler. Both sound unfortunately like people who don?t like the genre going out of their way to kill it.

Well, are not so entirely martial artist, only bought some martial maneuver from UMA...
and: japanese martial PC have a "dislike of technology" disad wich balance...

The big problem with #3 can be avoided by making characters pay for cyberware with points. Not the whole cost, but at least part. If they go over what they can pay for, (and nothing?s going to stop them) then they either can?t use it effectively, or start picking up extra disadvantages. Starting with ?Obsession With Abstracts? and ending with ?Wants To Kill All Humans.?

I'm using Cyberpsichosys to limit, even if some complaint are starting 'cause "i've ever bought <insert extra long list of cyberware> and never become a cyb-psycho..." (even 'cause old master permitted some remedy against cyberpsychosis...)

How much money are you starting them with, anyway? You didn?t let anyone buy the Wealth perk, did you?

I've modified wealth perk; i permit only up to 5 point and with 4 PC are starting with 10.000 euros and 3.000 euros/month
this are few if you want to become a combat cybermachine (wealth are multiplied by a luck roll...)

The problem is that this might be interpreted as ?Dr. D?s fancy new system can?t even make this stuff right!?

Yep
in fact, i've changed, adapted, house ruled some CP2020 material in my CP2020 game, and som eplayer never accepted, and this conversion are adapted on my house ruled version so, double "unacceptance"...

#5, Well, there?s a couple of things that can be done here. Make up a combat cheatsheet for everyone, with the basic combat process and all their standard attacks and maneuvers written up, so when you ask ?What DCV do you hit?? they don?t think you?re talking in tongues. Don?t just put the numbers, though; include how Block works and such.

Interesting...
similar to this:
"Block +2 OCV, +1 DCV
you can abort your next action to block incoming hth attack; you make an OCV roll against attack; if you succeed, attack are blocked"

Ultimately, though, if they don?t like the system, then they don?t like it. You can, and should, put the best face on it you can, but they might not like it, no matter what you do.

If they don't like, i accept. I fear they decided that don't like it BEFORE actually playing, so playing will be only a time loss...

[Fenixcrest]

It sounds like your players don't really understand who's in charge here. If they don't want to play the HERO System, then more power to them. I get the impression that, despite all their criticisms and complaints, though, none of them wants to GM, either. Just make sure you ease them into it, and remind them that you're the one spending your free time on providing adventures for their characters.

[Mister E]

I strongly recommend that all of your players have the same Speed. 3 is good. Otherwise, the players with only a 2 Speed will have bad feelings about the game.

[Mister E]

I also recommend running a 'test combat', with the first characters the players make, before you actually start the campaign. Both you and your players will learn a lot about how the game handles this way. It will give them a chance to tweak (or fix) their characters. Plus, it's a lot of fun.

My suggestion... throw a few 'normal' powered enemies at them. This will help the players feel like heroes that are "a cut above the rest."

[Dr Divago]

I also recommend running a 'test combat', with the first characters the players make, before you actually start the campaign. Both you and your players will learn a lot about how the game handles this way. It will give them a chance to tweak (or fix) their characters. Plus, it's a lot of fun.

D'oh... Yesterday was first session...
well, considering 2 or 3 weeks of "we cannot play 'cause one player is out of town", i'll considering about making few test combat with remaining player

My suggestion... throw a few 'normal' powered enemies at them. This will help the players feel like heroes that are "a cut above the rest."

Yeah, this is even my thought...
yesterday (only 1 hours or like to play 'cause "finishing touch") was centered around a fight with some 45 point punk...
"touch and die", i say...

[Dr Divago]

Yesterdat we played first session.
'cause some "finishing touch" on player characters, we played only 1 hours or like, and was centered around
1) char's first encounter
2) first fight vs some "quasi-normal" punk
this fight was... a little, strange
martial artist makes thing very sloow, but man-with-gun makes very fast
with 13 or like to OCV, DCV4 enemies, .454 pistols and like... "one shot one kill", i say

last encounter, with punk's boss, not yet done 'cause a really really impressive presence attack (wrtigin "go away" using blood spilled from head of a corpse, former first punk encountered, throwong head toward punk boss and shooter doing a bull's eye on front of head...), thus added to normal HIGH PRE attack...

for me, was very nice to be first session
but, i don't know... i'll ask my players, but my impression is same: players want to play CP2020, and are complaining that this is different...
i must talk about it...

[prestidigitator]

...considering 2 or 3 weeks of "we cannot play 'cause one player is out of town", i'll considering about making few test combat with remaining player....

Ouch. I've just got to say that this tactic has never wound up working for me. I will admit that the group I normally play with is a little flakey, but even with a group of mature, dependable players everyone tends to have their own lives and their own schedules. I've adopted the strategy of playing whenever I can get at least 2-3 players to join. Often attendence actually tends to go up when I use this strategy because no one wants to be left out. When players miss a session, they tend to get hooked more readily even if it is a game they aren't all that interested in, because they hear the other players talking about the cool session they had and want to get (back) in....

EDIT: This does take a little work, though, because you have to put some effort into making sure no one PC is central to the story, or find a way to change it quickly if the player isn't at a session.

[Mister E]

Ouch. I've just got to say that this tactic has never wound up working for me. I will admit that the group I normally play with is a little flakey, but even with a group of mature, dependable players everyone tends to have their own lives and their own schedules. I've adopted the strategy of playing whenever I can get at least 2-3 players to join. Often attendence actually tends to go up when I use this strategy because no one wants to be left out. When players miss a session, they tend to get hooked more readily even if it is a game they aren't all that interested in, because they hear the other players talking about the cool session they had and want to get (back) in....

EDIT: This does take a little work, though, because you have to put some effort into making sure no one PC is central to the story, or find a way to change it quickly if the player isn't at a session.

A bold tactic!

[Dr Divago]

Ouch. I've just got to say that this tactic has never wound up working for me.

Me too are using this tactics but this work only if regular (all) player are 4 or more

for this adventure i've only 3 player, and if someone cannot play, only 2 player left are not sufficient to play...
well, in theory; maybe later, when we're in the deep of the story,we can play with only 2 player in extremely rare cases...