Hard Target: Statting The Minigun

[Fox1]

Would you allow Reduced Penetration to be bought double-strength (attacks are divided by 1/4) for -1/2 instead of -1/4? To put it another way, the attack's penetration ability is quartered, instead of merely halved.

I would.

[Black Lotus]

Correct it is all about the SFX, while its not the way I would build it, your idea of 4d6, Rpen is perfectly workable and legal by the rules, you could even build it area effect to represent the massive number of bullets passing through a hex.

Many RPGs indeed treat it as an area of effect attack, but I know from seeing the weapon in action that it is a precision instrument. I had seriously considered the Area of Effect possibility, though, believe me, and I sort of still am willing to consider... WHOA! Right, you could do Area of Effect 1 Hex... maybe Selective! That IS quite realistic (very, extremely hard to use your own DCV against)... man, this weapon is complex.

[ghost-angel]

Another approach is using AoE, since you're basicaly throwing a massive amount of projectiles dowstream and the recoil could make it hard to control pinpoint wise you could assume someone firing it automatically fills the target hex with lead.

You could remove the Autofire, reduce the charges to reflect a certain number of bullets per pull of the trigger (fire once, 150 bullets fill the target hex), possibly increase the damage a bit more to reflect a lot of lead pounding the target.

This gets rid of the Autfire problem of an Extra Hit per 2 the ATT Roll is made by and garauntees the target is hit by "Multiple Bullets"

this is a hard one to model.. definitely post your final solution, I'm interested.

[Black Lotus]

Another approach is using AoE, since you're basicaly throwing a massive amount of projectiles dowstream and the recoil could make it hard to control pinpoint wise you could assume someone firing it automatically fills the target hex with lead.

I am seriously considering AoE: 1 Hex. In fact, I think I will certainly include it.

You could remove the Autofire, reduce the charges to reflect a certain number of bullets per pull of the trigger (fire once, 150 bullets fill the target hex), possibly increase the damage a bit more to reflect a lot of lead pounding the target.

I'm going to keep the Autofire simply because it shows that a hand-held minigun could easily walk across a target. The better the attack roll, the tighter an area you confined your walking to -- and trust me, all automatic weapons bounce and jiggle. It also slightly decreases the lethality of this weapon.

[Fox1]

I'm going to keep the Autofire simply because it shows that a hand-held minigun could easily walk across a target. The better the attack roll, the tighter an area you confined your walking to -- and trust me, all automatic weapons bounce and jiggle. It also slightly decreases the lethality of this weapon.

There are some interesting effects of combing autofire and AoE as I recall. It may not work out for you.

Hmm, first glance looks like they removed those...

How about mobile on the AoE, maybe with a limit to represent walking the fire across an area?

[Black Lotus]

I need help calculating the STR Minimum for a 30-lb, 0.75-meter-long weapon. I will of course also be including OAF Bulky.

[Fox1]

I need help calculating the STR Minimum for a 30-lb, 0.75-meter-long weapon. I will of course also be including OAF Bulky.

At full rate of fire?

Assuming the 240 lbs of recoil energy noted on one website is correct, it would take a STR of 26 under my house rules.

But there's a problem with that. Those assume a recoil impulse, not a continuous pressure as this gun would give. Frankly, your guess is as good as mine.

[Kristopher]

I'd suggest against reduced pentration. One of the effects of extremely high RoF weapons like the GE series is that it's likely that one of the rounds will find something or somewhere vulnerable on the target. This is part of what makes the GAU-8A so effective against tanks.

[Black Lotus]

I'd suggest against reduced pentration. One of the effects of extremely high RoF weapons like the GE series is that it's likely that one of the rounds will find something or somewhere vulnerable on the target. This is part of what makes the GAU-8A so effective against tanks.

Then perhaps only a single Reduced Penetration (after all, these are 5.56mm bullets we're talking about).

Oh and 26 STR sounds fine, I think. I was thinking anywhere from 25 -- 30 STR Minimum. Of course the weapon MUST be used two-handed, and I might add a +1 OCV, not sure yet.

[Black Lotus]

Okay, here's the tentative first writeup.

General Electric XM-214 Automatic Gun ___________________

RKA 4d6 (60 Character Points), Area of Effect (1 Hex; +1/2), Autofire 10 Only (+1), Charges (200; +1); Beam (-1/4), OAF Bulky (-1 1/2), Real Weapon (-1/4), Reduced Penetration (-1/4), Strength Minimum (26, STR Min Cannot Add/ Subtract Damage; -1 1/2). Notes: Weapon MUST be used two-handed. The weapon weighs 30 lbs, and the clip (backpack) weighs 35 lbs.

Active Points: 210. Real Point Cost: 44.

Comments? Suggestions? Additions? Criticisms?

EDIT: Changed Autofire 10 to Autofire 10 Only.

[Black Lotus]

I think I may up the damage just a tad. Maybe even all the way to 6d6. I'm using the book's definition of Damage/ Bullet size, and myself, I prefer to have slightly more lethal damages, though I definitely won't add a STUNx modifier. Still, it's be like getting hit by two of my .50 Action Express cartridges... actually, that's appropriate considering the weapon.

Hey Fox, what do you think the PER Mod should be for this? ROFL!

Also, I found out that FREd does indeed have an entry about firearm PER Mods; you don't necessarily need Dark Champions.

[Vorsch]

Problem is, you only score an extra hit with Autofire for each 2 you make your attack roll by. This gun fires sooo fast, several bullets are guaranteed to hit in almost the same place almost simultaneously -- 100 bullets per second is A LOT. If I did it Autofire 6,000, the weapon would be pretty much worthless (because of the high cost for no real effect).

The only way to remedy this is to have a house rule that for every 2 points you make the attack roll by, (total autofire / 5 [or maybe 10]) extra bullets hit. For example, if I had Autofire 100, the first attack, if successful, causes 10 or 20 hits, if I make the attack roll by 2 I score 10 or 20 more hits, etcetera.

The other way to totally realistically represent really large RoF is to have a whole bunch of Linked Powers, but frankly, that'd be a whole lot more deadly than the way I do it. For example, I could Link four additional "4d6 Autofire 10" Powers to the first one.

Huge RoFs are a problem in Hero. If anyone has a very realistic/ reasonable/ fun solution that doesn't mainly depend upon house rules (or even if they do), please tell me. But just like with Energy Blast (stream of rubber bullets), it is okay according to the official rules to assume a single attack contains many projectiles -- just increase the damage (and in this case add Reduced Penetration once or even twice).

High cost no real effect is a hero problem not mine.

missing or gaining no extra bonuse for the other 99shots likewise.

its just silly

[Fox1]

Hey Fox, what do you think the PER Mod should be for this? ROFL!

It counts as "visible to those who are blind as a bat in one eye and can't see out of the other"

More serious, I think Bulky already handles it (as it does the two-handed requirement).

[Black Lotus]

Fox, would you consider 4d6 RKA (Reduced Penetration) to be ample damage for a tight volley of 3 - 5 5.56mm bullets, taking the fact that I prefer slightly higher damage than given in the official rules into consideration?

[Roy_The_Ruthles]

Okay, here's the tentative first writeup.

General Electric XM-214 Automatic Gun ___________________

RKA 4d6 (60 Character Points), Area of Effect (1 Hex; +1/2), Autofire 10 Only (+1), Charges (200; +1); Beam (-1/4), OAF Bulky (-1 1/2), Real Weapon (-1/4), Reduced Penetration (-1/4), Strength Minimum (26, STR Min Cannot Add/ Subtract Damage; -1 1/2). Notes: Weapon MUST be used two-handed. The weapon weighs 30 lbs, and the clip (backpack) weighs 35 lbs.

Active Points: 210. Real Point Cost: 44.

Comments? Suggestions? Additions? Criticisms?

EDIT: Changed Autofire 10 to Autofire 10 Only.

why is it "str min doesn't add to damage"? it normally doesn't for an RKA