Champions Universe Plot Hole Plugging

[OddHat]

In other words, people are more likely to clearly remember the costume, and not the face or voice?

Sounds reasonable...

Yup. There a few popular (and possibly true) net-anecdotes about this. I think that most people have a hell of a time recognizing famous people on the street, out of context. I spotted Tricia Heffler (sp?) walking out of the dealer's room at GenCon, in her sweat shirt and jeans and without make-up. She looked a bit familiar, and attractive, but I didn't think much about it or realize who she was until I saw her later signing autographs, with a sign identifying her. I've had similar exeriences with people from my gym, students, people from work, etc.

If Captain Future always wears a bright red spandex suit and half mask, his glowing force-field shining around him, well, that's a very memorable image. Even if your quiet co-worker Bill Smith is also a tall, athletic guy, you're not likely to make the connection, at least not until you sit down with photographs of both of them and look carefully. Lois and Jimmy should have connected Superman to Clark as soon as they talked to Supes for five minutes; OTOH, a guy who casually knows Clark from the office might watch Superman flying by quickly on TV for years and not make the connection until someone pointed it out.

A pair of glasses vs spandex is not enough of a disguise in my games to hide your identity by itself, but it's not a bad start.

[Mutant for Hire]

My main issue is that none of the magicians or the scientists out there have figured out the development of supertech is dependent on magical forces, or for that matter, superpowers in general. My own feeling is that there would be at least one or two people who would make the connection.

[Wormhole]

Off the top of my head, there's the question of "Why isn't telepathic interrogation standard for all captured VIPER agents, thus forcing all Nests to adopt the described antitelepathy precautions??"

I can answer this one myself, though: "Because there aren't enough sanctioned telepaths of sufficient power to go around." IOW, most of the time all you could get for scanning the average VIPER agent is a normal or heroic normal with Telepathy 6d6, not enough to get much useful without extensive interrogation.

Also the concept of Need To Know Information™ obviously comes into play here. A telepathic sift of a rank and file VIPER mook's mind isn't usually worth the time since it's highly unlikely to yield any relivant infromation you don't already have (note that I said highly unlikely since there's an outside chance that a bottom-runger might have overheard something important and simply chose to keep his or her mouth shut so as not to get in trouble, but logically this should be a rarity). Even elites and officers are only going to have as much 411 as the Supreme Serpent and the other big wigs deem them worthy of having (and that assumes they don't make a run for it or commit suicide the moment they see things going south). Besides, who's to say a particularly incompetent agent wasn't loaded up with misinformation by his boss(es) and sent out for the express purpose of getting captured?

[Mutant for Hire]

If Captain Future always wears a bright red spandex suit and half mask, his glowing force-field shining around him, well, that's a very memorable image. Even if your quiet co-worker Bill Smith is also a tall, athletic guy, you're not likely to make the connection, at least not until you sit down with photographs of both of them and look carefully. Lois and Jimmy should have connected Superman to Clark as soon as they talked to Supes for five minutes; OTOH, a guy who casually knows Clark from the office might watch Superman flying by quickly on TV for years and not make the connection until someone pointed it out.

The main problem these days is that there would be a ton of people, starting with the Federal government on down who would want to know who the overpowered vigilante in spandex really is. They'd start taking high resolution photographs and then using computer processing to digitally peel back the mask and work out what they look like underneath.

I agree for the casual person on the street, sure, that isn't going to be an issue, but against the government, that's a whole different story. Especially as the government knows that if a certain class of paranormal threat shows up, Captain Stupendous is going to show up. Expect one high flying helicopter overhead with a telescopic camera tracking his progress after the battle (assuming they're a flyer, people on car/foot if CS doesn't fly). Even better for them if the villain draws blood so they can get a sample.

[Metaphysician]

Also the concept of Need To Know Information™ obviously comes into play here. A telepathic sift of a rank and file VIPER mook's mind isn't usually worth the time since it's highly unlikely to yield any relivant infromation you don't already have (note that I said highly unlikely since there's an outside chance that a bottom-runger might have overheard something important and simply chose to keep his or her mouth shut so as not to get in trouble, but logically this should be a rarity). Even elites and officers are only going to have as much 411 as the Supreme Serpent and the other big wigs deem them worthy of having (and that assumes they don't make a run for it or commit suicide the moment they see things going south). Besides, who's to say a particularly incompetent agent wasn't loaded up with misinformation by his boss(es) and sent out for the express purpose of getting captured?

Oh, this is certainly true to an extent; its just the default level of NTK restriction is less than if you expected every captured agent to be fully mindvacuumed. For one thing, serious measures would be taken to ensure that as few agents as possible actually know where the Nest *is*.

[Metaphysician]

The main problem these days is that there would be a ton of people, starting with the Federal government on down who would want to know who the overpowered vigilante in spandex really is. They'd start taking high resolution photographs and then using computer processing to digitally peel back the mask and work out what they look like underneath.

I agree for the casual person on the street, sure, that isn't going to be an issue, but against the government, that's a whole different story. Especially as the government knows that if a certain class of paranormal threat shows up, Captain Stupendous is going to show up. Expect one high flying helicopter overhead with a telescopic camera tracking his progress after the battle (assuming they're a flyer, people on car/foot if CS doesn't fly). Even better for them if the villain draws blood so they can get a sample.

Of course, do we actually have any information that DOSPA *doesn't* do this??

[OddHat]

Of course, do we actually have any information that DOSPA *doesn't* do this??

Exactly. Considering how Superhuman Registration works in the CU, I'd expect that the government figures out the "secret" identities of most high profile Supers within a few months of their first public appearance, unless those Supers take pains not to be photographed in both their civillian and heroic identities. Even then, it's probably only a matter of time. On the other hand, government agencies should know that heavy hande recruitment techniques have the potential to turn into PR nightmares, as well as carrying a real risk of driving "heroes" further underground. I'd expect them to sit on that information unless the Super in question appeared to be a danger to the public, or until they could find a practical use for it.

[Powerhouse]

"most definately the Archmage would know this."

Except that he's free-floating atoms in the wastes of Russia.

I guess we'll have to ask Witchfire in a decade or so.

[Mutant for Hire]

Exactly. Considering how Superhuman Registration works in the CU, I'd expect that the government figures out the "secret" identities of most high profile Supers within a few months of their first public appearance, unless those Supers take pains not to be photographed in both their civillian and heroic identities. Even then, it's probably only a matter of time. On the other hand, government agencies should know that heavy hande recruitment techniques have the potential to turn into PR nightmares, as well as carrying a real risk of driving "heroes" further underground. I'd expect them to sit on that information unless the Super in question appeared to be a danger to the public, or until they could find a practical use for it.

Actually, the PR nightmare comes in when someone cracks the database containing these secret identities and offers to auction it off to the highest bidder....

[OddHat]

Actually, the PR nightmare comes in when someone cracks the database containing these secret identities and offers to auction it off to the highest bidder....

Yes, that will happen as well. Also, Primus, SAT and UNTIL agents may sell the Secret IDs of popular female heroes to paparazi, which should be fun.

And then there will be Playboy's Women of Primus...

[Mutant for Hire]

Yes, that will happen as well. Also, Primus, SAT and UNTIL agents may sell the Secret IDs of popular female heroes to paparazi, which should be fun.

And then there will be Playboy's Women of Primus...

Let's not go overboard here. I seriously doubt that most PRIMUS, SAT and UNTIL agents would have access to this database except on a need to know basis, and I tend to think on average they're a bit better screened than to do that.

More likely would a repeat of the RL experience of the Valerie Plame incident, where a secret ID would be leaked to do damage to someone, or someone close to the secret ID in question.

But getting back to the original concept of the superhero database getting hacked, there are a number of superpowered thieves and cyberkinetics who could overcome some very extraordinary defenses, especially if they were backed by supertech, and there are agencies that would gladly spend a lot of money for that sort of data, so I don't consider it that fanciful.

[OddHat]

Let's not go overboard here. I seriously doubt that most PRIMUS, SAT and UNTIL agents would have access to this database except on a need to know basis, and I tend to think on average they're a bit better screened than to do that.

More likely would a repeat of the RL experience of the Valerie Plame incident, where a secret ID would be leaked to do damage to someone, or someone close to the secret ID in question.

But getting back to the original concept of the superhero database getting hacked, there are a number of superpowered thieves and cyberkinetics who could overcome some very extraordinary defenses, especially if they were backed by supertech, and there are agencies that would gladly spend a lot of money for that sort of data, so I don't consider it that fanciful.

Well, again and always, the kind of story the GM wants to tell will have a direct influence here, as well as that GM's interpretation of "realistic".

If you're running a semi-parody campaign, interpretting SAT Agents as kids who went into the service because it paid better than a McJob, then the Super's identities will be sold to the Weekly World News by the third game session.

If you want to tell stories in a more serious world, where those identities are as well protected as those of a CIA Agent, then yes, the Valerie Plume model is a good one. Either way, as you point out, in a world of Super-Hackers, any information in a database that is connected to the Internet will inevitably be hacked.

That's why sensitive information is almost always kept in hard copy or in a very secure intranet in my campaign, a method that would have to be used in the CU as a starting point. You still can't keep anything secret forever in a world of Super-Tech, magic and psionics, but security procedures should still try to take those risk factors into account as much as possible.

[Metaphysician]

Sometimes.

As for secret ID info, if they *don't* keep it on an isolated computer surrounded with the best shielding technologically possible, they are stupid.

[OddHat]

As for secret ID info, if they *don't* keep it on an isolated computer surrounded with the best shielding technologically possible, they are stupid.

Exactly so.

Not that this will keep it safe forever, but that's life in our world of talking super-intelligent gorillas.

[Balabanto]

My biggest problem with the Champions Universe actually IS that all superpowers come from magic.

I didn't feel that this was necessary, and IMHO, it radically damaged the quality of many of the supplements that have been released for a number of reasons.

For one thing, it leads to discussions with your players that sound like the Gothic Punk Magician.

GM: So, Candleman. You say you have 3d6 of NND RKA that Does Body, yes?

Player: Of course I do. You don't like it, do you?

GM: I don't think you should have this power. What's the justification for it?

Player: It's Maaaa-gic. F**k Yuuuuu! You don't like it because I fooled you! I can justify anything I want because it's Maaaagic.

If the actual rules and laws of magic were clearly defined, difficult to manipulate, and obeyed some sort of specific theme guidelines that functioned within the game world, and these rules were more detailed than the focus on people, places and things in the Mystic World supplement, then yeah, I could almost buy this. But they aren't, and they can't be, because of the nature of marketing.

For another, it leads to cop outs when you talk with your fellow players. When a player asks you why something was done, you turn to him and become the gothic punk magician@.

Player: So why doesn't Doctor Destroyer rule the world?

GM: It's maaaa-gic! F**k Yuuuu! You don't like it because I fooled you!

I always liked the ideas out of the pulps and superhero comic books that any advanced enough technology was indistinguishable from magic. For me, that's how comic books always worked.

But in this universe, any advanced enough magic is capable of producing technology. I can't wrap my mind around this concept.