Shapeshifting and experience

[Curufea]

.

[Markdoc]

Depends what you want. It's not abusive and in play should be OK - but as a GM I would not allow it. Not to be a bastiche or anything but simply to underline the fact that the guy is playing a *monster*.

So he has difficulty living a normal life. Big deal. He's a *monster*. Fantasy literature is full of stories about the human who has a spouse with otherworldly powers who says things like "We can live together but I must sleep alone and you must promise never, never to look in my bedchamber when I am asleep".

It becomes a roleplaying hook and some compensation for the fact that he has access to neato-kewl powers that PCs of human origin do not have. (to be fair, he should also have access to disadvantages that human players don't have - like this one - so he should get the points for those too).

cheers, Mark

[prestidigitator]

Hey, it's your game and your setting. Why not? It sounds like a plausible concept if you think it fits in your world. However, in terms of mechanics I think you mean Persistant rather than Inherent. You may want to reread those two Advantages.

[Outsider]

I'd be inclined to disallow it, since you told the player at the outset that it would be as it is, and not improvable.

BUT

If you're going to relent, I wouldnt do it via the restrictive clothing method. I'd allow something along the lines of him to finding/constructing an ancient Rakshasa artifact that allows persistent shapeshifting, so long as it is worn. Buy it as a naked Shapeshift advantage (Persistent) on an IIF.

[Curufea]

That is a good idea. Plus it is a good reason for him to start buying skills. He started as a monster with no memory (his choice). And didn't want to spend points regaining his memory (ie learning his old skills).
Backstory being a magical accident transferring his mind to a monster's body.

[WhammeWhamme]

I've a character in my game that was a Rakshasa - pretty much straight out of the Bestiary. With a few added language skills and some shrinking to retcon a mistake I made on his shifting in game.

Now - he keeps suggesting all these things he could do based around the shapeshifting power with his experience points.
I repeatedly point out that it is a natural ability of the race, not a learned skill - and it can't be improved upon. Shapeshift - any humanoid, no endurance. That's it.

<snip>

What do you think?

I think 'it can't be improved upon' makes absolutely no sense. Being unable to improve a particular spell, sure. Unable to improve a physical object, okay.

Unable to improve your natural attributes? Say what?

Running is a natural ability of the human race. It can be improved upon.
So is strength. So is PD.

Being a 'natural ability' makes it more readily susceptible to practice. Expanding the class of things copied, no, of course not. Adding power tricks? Makes perfect sense.

/rant

[Curufea]

Okay, improve your eyesight then

[WhammeWhamme]

You can't directly improve your eyesight, true, but you can certainly improve you 'PER Roll: Sight'. That would be spending a lot of time searching for patterns, and looking for small details, and so forth.

Heck, play FPS's extensively.

Indeed, you can, with practice, acquire relative 'telescopic sight' through simple deduction - I need glasses/contacts, but I could operate without them for years because I knew what it was I _should_ be seeing.

Next?

[Curufea]

Plus you could put the points into an OAF: Glasses now that I think about it. Except equipment is usually not point based.

Using computers doesn't improve eyesight - quite the opposite, in fact

However, back on topic - it should be fine if I define the setting correctly. "This is how this particular animal can improve itself - anything else is unrealistic in this setting"

ie a human can buy +1 PER but can't buy detect lifesigns 360 degrees. It breaks the setting rules.

[WhammeWhamme]

I'm aware that computer use deteriorates vision in a strict sense.

However, 'vision' is not a Power that can be bought up _or_ down in HERO.
PER Roll: Sight is.

And you can certainly train yourself to be better at noticing things. Takes time and effort, sure, but it can be done.


And you certainly _can_ define the setting however you want, including banning buying up stats and powers of all kinds... whether this is 'realistic', however, is _not_ something you can define.

Communist Utopias (to go tangental) are not realistic. You can certainly say they exist in your game world, but that doesn't make them realistic. It makes your game less realistic.

"It's magic" can handwave anything, but you shouldn't be surprised when this annoys players.

Buying 'lifesight' on a human isn't realistic. Therefore, banning it doesn't make the game less realistic.

Allowing lifesight, and then deciding you can't become better at it in any way, is slightly less realistic than if you could; surely with practice you could become better at recognizing the patterns?

[Curufea]

The thing is here - some advancements in shapeshifting could be possible, but not others.
I won't allow him to shapeshift into non-humanoid shapes. That's not realistic.

[Markdoc]

Right to to take a totally analogous example: the Rakshasha reverts to his normal shape when asleep. OK. Maybe he can learn to hold his shifted form when asleep, maybe not.

You might be able to improve your perception - but can you use that sight perception bonus when asleep?

As a GM, I would rule you couldn't: no matter how good it was when awake.

cheers, Mark

[WhammeWhamme]

Right to to take a totally analogous example: the Rakshasha reverts to his normal shape when asleep. OK. Maybe he can learn to hold his shifted form when asleep, maybe not.

You might be able to improve your perception - but can you use that sight perception bonus when asleep?

As a GM, I would rule you couldn't: no matter how good it was when awake.

cheers, Mark

He said "and it can't be improved upon. Shapeshift - any humanoid, no endurance. That's it."

Saying no to specific improvements, perhaps. Saying no to _any_ improvement - except for one that he (the GM) thought of?

Like I said, power tricks. Power tricks good.

[Greg]

On an aside, computer use can cause eye fatigue, but doesn't cause any permanent effects.

Back on topic, I'm letting the comparable type character in my campaign increase his powers just like a fighter could increase his natural strength. If your main concern is that it's unbalancing to give him additional powers though then that should be reason enough to disallow it. You could attach a side effect to his changing outside of a humanoid form. Maybe he takes damage from turning into such odd forms or maybe it costs endurance because of the strain.