Need help with my PC

[Greywolf2001ca]

I want to know if my character is legal according to the rules, I don't care about my DM, I'll worry about that later.

I just ask that you read carefully my post, questions or comments before you post, I, ve seen to many times someone posting without reading the full content of the post he is replying to, thanks.

IN a supers game, my character, when it goes into heroic ID, gains stats, can I just add the increases of the stats as powers and put the OIHID limitations on them and link them together? She is not multiforming or shape changing, or growing, only changing appearance a little, not enough to take morphing powers... she only becomes super heroic instead of just being heroic.

here is the character actually:

Not in heroic identity
s:10 D:10 C:10 B:10 I:20 Eg:10 P:10 Com:20
all derived stats are average for those stats above

she has 35 points in skills, talents and perks.

her powers are:
1)Mutant Powers--, elemental group, does not work in water (as in "in the water" no me in the water), 60 APts
-- transfer, persistent, always on 2d6, no end, 17pts, 60 APts
-- Desolidification, no endurance, 60 APts
-- Invisibility to sight, hearing, smell/taste, and radio group, as well as detect, no fringe and 1/2 endurance cost, 24 pts, 60 APts


2)Night vision, Always on, rapid: X10, +1 PER

3) running, +6", +6" (12" total), OIHID

4) Leaping, +12", +12" (18" forward, 9" upward) OIHID

5) Strength, costs end to activate only, X2 endurance cost, +20 strength OIHID 17pts, 25 APts

6) other stats, OIHID, +20 dex, +10 con, +5 body, +5 ego, +20 Pre, +2 spd, all linked with strength, total of 79 pts, 140 APts

7) armor, 15 resistant PD, 5 resistant ED, linked to str, OIHID

8) Power Defense, 20 pts, OIHID, linked to str

9) Weapon--, FOCUS, unbreakable, expendable (extremely difficult to get another), obvious and removeable, 62pts multipower, magical
-- Darkness, 5" radius, sight group, personal immunity, 62 APts, costs 2
-- Illusion, 1" radius, sight group, normal touch and hearing, +/-5 PER, mobile, costs endurance only to activate, difficult to dispel, costs 2pts, 62 APts
-- Flight, 20", positional shift, cost end only to activate. costs 2 pts, 62 APts
-- Weapon Damage, +6d6 HtH damage, affects any form of desolidification, costs 2 pts, 60 APts

she has 125 points of disadvantages that goes with her story and origins.


A question about her weapon, do you take a normal weapon and enchant it or the powers it has is what it does? Like for example, if I say my focus is a staff that does normally 4d6 of normal damage, but I say in my focus' description that is has +6d6 of HtH damage, so does it do 6d6 + str or 10d6 + str?

another question, if I want to use my desolidification as a defense to replace dodges, parries and blocks, is there an advantage I must buy and which one? If I don't need any advantage, how would it work in the game? Lose the next phase? Or lose the next phase only for activating powers? Or use only half a phase? If instead of dodging, blocking or parrying I use my desolidification, what do I basically need to make it so?

Thanks for your help.

Oh yeah, my DM says the character is too strong for the campaign he's running, originally, my character had more disadvantages and 8 of speed, but he said that was too strong. I think if he wanted to make super zeroes he should have limited players to 100 pts in disadvantages instead of 150pts lol. What do you think? Oh yeah, I think it's also because all but one player in his group of players have generic unimaginative character that sucks compared to my character lol. But if he wanted weaker characters, why did he give 350 points to build them anyways? A bit dumb don,t you think? If I would make a game in this system and wouldn't want the super heroes to be too strong I would reduce the amount of disadvantages one could have by 50 for example to have character of 300 points instead of 350. Bad DM, lol.


question on the side, why ain't there any REAL dodges in the game? All you have is a DnD 2nd Ed. "dodge" that make you harder to hit... in my book, and in the normal world, someone that dodges is someone who is being attacked and tries to avoid it, not someone who attacks and must hit the guy who dodges duh. yo ushould remove that OCV and DCV and replace them with real combat skills where the numbers comes from somewhere, OCV and DCV are abstract value that the guy who made the game decided what they should be.
When I want to dodge, I want my character to dodge, not have additional Armour class, because the DCV is basically Armour class in DnD. Would it be possible to see improvement in a future edition? I mean when I use dodge, I want to roll my dodge skill, not add some number to some abstract value that comes from nowhere, and always corss referencing on some chart is long and breaks the intensity of the combat by stretching it, a good old dodge/block/parry skill roll to defend yourself is much better than always cross referencing on a darn table all the time. Abstract values are not really logical.

[Killer Shrike]

IN a supers game, my character, when it goes into heroic ID, gains stats, can I just add the increases of the stats as powers and put the OIHID limitations on them and link them together? She is not multiforming or shape changing, or growing, only changing appearance a little, not enough to take morphing powers... she only becomes super heroic instead of just being heroic.

Yes; in fact you don't even have to put OIHID on the effect unless you specifically want a character with a "normal" form and a "super form" as opposed to just having a Secret ID.

Reasonable and consistent appearance change is all handled by Activation of Powers and/or SFX. You might want to read the general section under Powers in the Rulebook, whichever version you have. Key ideas like Activation of Powers, Reasoning from Effect, and SFX are covered therein.

[Killer Shrike]

As far as your actual character is concerned, what exactly is the concept? I see a mishmash of disparate abilities, but no concept. You might want to start by defining an origin for your character, or if you prefer a justification for why she has the powers you have chosen. As it is, it looks like the results of randomizer.

Getting into specifics, what is the rationale for a "Mutant Powers" EC, and why doesnt it work in water? More to the point, how are the Transer, Invisiblity, and Desolid so closely related that if one is drained it makes sense for all of them to be drained?

How are your other stats all linked with STR? Also, do you understand the implications of Linking?

As far as weapons are concerned, you don't take a normal piece of equipment weapon (Equipment is for heroic games), and then tack on other powers. You build the "weapon" as a Power (generally some variation of HA, HKA, EB, or RKA, but not necessarily), and limit it appropriately (generally with FOCI or Restrainable). If you want a +6d6 HA then you buy a Hand Attack Power. You can have multiple Powers represented by the same conceptual object if you want. All that aside, where did your water shy strength linked Mutant get such a shiny magic staff anyway?

All that aside, the character in its current incarnation as presented is borderline legal, and terminally munchkiny. If I were the GM I'd bounce you back to the drawing board until you came up with a character that isnt such a blatant and clumsy attempt at powergamey point grabbing.

[Killer Shrike]

another question, if I want to use my desolidification as a defense to replace dodges, parries and blocks, is there an advantage I must buy and which one? If I don't need any advantage, how would it work in the game? Lose the next phase? Or lose the next phase only for activating powers? Or use only half a phase? If instead of dodging, blocking or parrying I use my desolidification, what do I basically need to make it so?

You can Abort to activate Desolid as a Defensive action. You can do that in combination with either Block or Dodge if you like, but the nature of going Desolid makes that pretty pointless in most circumstances. Aborting takes your entire next action. Once Desolid you would stay that way however until you chose to go solid again (unless your Desolid were limited in some way that forced the issue).

Of course, any attack with "Affects Desolid" would smoke you, but that's what you get for using a primarily Body Affecting Power as a Defense.

Oh yeah, my DM says the character is too strong for the campaign he's running, originally, my character had more disadvantages and 8 of speed, but he said that was too strong. I think if he wanted to make super zeroes he should have limited players to 100 pts in disadvantages instead of 150pts lol. What do you think? Oh yeah, I think it's also because all but one player in his group of players have generic unimaginative character that sucks compared to my character lol. But if he wanted weaker characters, why did he give 350 points to build them anyways? A bit dumb don,t you think? If I would make a game in this system and wouldn't want the super heroes to be too strong I would reduce the amount of disadvantages one could have by 50 for example to have character of 300 points instead of 350. Bad DM, lol.

I'd comment on this, but I doubt you have a frame of reference from which to understand the response. When next you see your "DM", give him my condolences.

question on the side, why ain't there any REAL dodges in the game? All you have is a DnD 2nd Ed. "dodge" that make you harder to hit... in my book, and in the normal world, someone that dodges is someone who is being attacked and tries to avoid it, not someone who attacks and must hit the guy who dodges

What are you talking about?

A) It's been a decade or so since I played AD&D 2e, but there was no such thing as a "DODGE" that I recall.

B) The HERO System Dodge works out to +3 DCV which raises your passive chance to not be hit. Trying to avoid being hit makes you harder to hit. Where is the disconnect?

duh. yo ushould remove that OCV and DCV and replace them with real combat skills where the numbers comes from somewhere, OCV and DCV are abstract value that the guy who made the game decided what they should be.

You should actually play the game a bit and improve your language skills if you want to make suggestions like that and be taken seriously.

When I want to dodge, I want my character to dodge, not have additional Armour class, because the DCV is basically Armour class in DnD.

Actually, though you clearly put much thought behind this assertion and it is no doubt backed up by enormous experience, you are essentially incorrect. Armor Class in all versions of D&D has been a composite abstracted hit resolution. AC indicated not only characters ability to not get hit, but also to block, and to get hit but have the blows not penetrate their armor or equivalent. It was thus both a form of avoidance and mitigation. Also, since D&D had only generalized damage, characters whittled on one another essentially until one or the other died. Later editions added a threshold before death, and progressively better attempts at "unarmed" or "subdual" damage, but nevertheless, the fact was that the only hit point that really mattered was your last one. Further, since combat was extremely abstracted in earlier versions of D&D, and still somewhat abstract in the newest edition, AC was preeminent in the realm of defensive consideration.

DCV on the otherhand is only and purely avoidance. Further, there are other viable means of either avoiding, preventing, or mitigating damage other than DCV. Also, due to the integrated STUN and BODY damage concept of the HERO System, any hit has the potential to stagger you, making combat more than I hit you you hit me. DCV is also a fluid concept; there are dozens of manuevers and circumstances that characters can use to their advantage or have used against them to modify their DCV situationally. Finally, HERO System combats are the opposite of abstract, they are granular to an almost unequaled degree; every second of combat time is tracked, each attack is resolved, and the volume of attacks is much higher.

The two mechanics are both avoidance oriented to some extent, but they have different roles within the contexts of their respective games.

Would it be possible to see improvement in a future edition? I mean when I use dodge, I want to roll my dodge skill, not add some number to some abstract value that comes from nowhere, and always corss referencing on some chart is long and breaks the intensity of the combat by stretching it, a good old dodge/block/parry skill roll to defend yourself is much better than always cross referencing on a darn table all the time. Abstract values are not really logical.

What table are you cross referencing? Amazingly, Ive never cross referenced a single table to resolve an OCV vs DCV exchange in 15 years of playing the HERO System. Are you sure you arent playing some other game?

As far as "value that comes from nowhere", allow me to educate you. The numbers used for OCV and DCV do not come from "nowhere". They are derived from DEX/3, which works out to a base of 3 for most stock characters. They are then applied to the base of 11, which is a significant number in that it is the assumed breakpoint of the games underlying roll under mechanic.

If a character with the base 3 CV were to hit a DCV 0 object, they would have a 14- chance, which is close enough to 9 in 10 chance on a Bell Curve to not quibble over the difference. That seems like pretty reasonable odds. However, vs another 3 CV character your chance to hit is the same 11- that pops up for other characteristics rolls at base (9 + (10/5)). In a sense, your Attack roll is a special kind of DEX roll.

As far as rolling for defensive actions like dodge or block, your understanding of game theory must be flawed if you think that is a good thing. From a probabilty perspective, rolling more dice is bad, and a defender is almost always going to have to roll more defense rolls than attackers will roll attack rolls because of the inevitable scenario where several characters all attack the same person; just from the law of averages the defender will get screwed eventually.

Further, from a pacing stand point, resolving opposing rolls always takes more time than having a single attack roll vs a target number of some sort; even if you are cross-referencing on a chart for some reason. Add in hit locations in some heroic games, and damage rolls too and you've got quite an array of dice rolls going on.

It is better from both a fairness & balance perspective and a gameplay perspective to reduced superfulous rolls, not the other way around. Another thing to consider is the principle of slant; the HERO System gives the defender the benefit of the doubt -- it's slant is towards keeping characters alive. Some other game systems are slanted the other way, towards killing characters off and their mechanics are weighted accordingly.

[Sean Waters]

Your weapon does the damage you bought for it: you don't get +4d6 for it being a staff, so 6d6 + STR.

What does the transfer transfer to and from? What it WON'T do in the present form is transfer points to you if you are hit or grabbed - only if you use it as an attack, so I can not see the point of the persistent advantage.

You shouldn't get a limitation for stats/powers linked to strength as :

1. the STR seems to be the lesser power (-1/4 lim)
2. It will always be on (so 1/4 less limitation)


....plus the power defence linked to strength to avoid the strength being drained removes a large part of the limitation of inked anyway - a limtiation that doesn't limit is not worth anything. I think this baby is a lot more expensive than you think it is.

I'm not sure you want that focus 'expendable - that means it has to be replaced after each use. I'm not sure what you mean by 'removeable' -all focii are 'removeable' anyway.

As for OIHID - you need to define what you need to do to 'get into hero form' -there has to be some limitation - probably some way to STOP you getting into Hero Form, or some limitation (for instance extra time) on doing so.

No idea what you mean on the 'dodge' point. DCV is not the same as AC in DnD: that combines difficulty of being hit and resistance to damage, which are seperate in Hero. Someone dodging is harder to hit, but can still be hit (you can always dive for cover...). You can always build a dodge with levels if you want to do it that way.

As for the DM: you should care or you won't be playing. Everything is relative to the other players and the villains being used. If the character never gets hit and knocks down villains like nine-pins, yes it is too 'strong' for the campaign. I'd talk through the specific concerns if I were you...

[Hugh Neilson]

Lots of good advice above. Particularly in regards to the back story that links all these powers together.

I want to know if my character is legal according to the rules, I don't care about my DM, I'll worry about that later.

Note that there are a number of subjective issues in assessing whether something is "rules-legal".

IN a supers game, my character, when it goes into heroic ID, gains stats, can I just add the increases of the stats as powers and put the OIHID limitations on them and link them together?

OIHID requires a limiting factor. How does the character change to Hero ID? I've seen a number of characters where "linked" is used to replace OIHID. I would generally not allow a charcater to run a full power suite both OIHID and Linked to some power there's no drawback (and that means a drawback greater than simply staying in HID) to maintaining at all times anyway.

here is the character actually:

Not in heroic identity
s:10 D:10 C:10 B:10 I:20 Eg:10 P:10 Com:20
all derived stats are average for those stats above

OIHID is a limitation. You should expect that, at some time in game, you will be unable to take on your hero ID. Will your character be useful for anything during these times, or will you be frustrated that the GM is "picking on yoiur character" and preventing you from using your abilities.

A -1/4 limitation reeduces cost by 20%. Expect to see utility reduced a similar amount.

her powers are:
1)Mutant Powers--, elemental group, does not work in water (as in "in the water" no me in the water), 60 APts
-- transfer, persistent, always on 2d6, no end, 17pts, 60 APts
-- Desolidification, no endurance, 60 APts
-- Invisibility to sight, hearing, smell/taste, and radio group, as well as detect, no fringe and 1/2 endurance cost, 24 pts, 60 APts

"Mutant" is a background detail, not a basis for an elemental control. It's no better a linkage than "EC: Superpowers".

Others have noted you need to define what your Transfer transfers to and from. Note also that it is limited to 12 points of effect (ie you can add 12 CP to the item it transfers to, no more). Your Transfer as defined means it can never be shut off - anyone you touch faces its effect. As an END using power (despite having the END bought to zero), it is visible to three sense groups, so forget any likelihood of ever being stealthy. Finally, it can't be both "always on" and "only in hero ID", as the latter contradicts the former.

Note that none of your other powers have any effect while you are desloid unless purchased to "affect solid world".

Your Invisibility is completely useless, as it will not render the effects of your Transfer (visible to three sense groups and always on) any less detectable. Technically it's legal, it's just useless.

2)Night vision, Always on, rapid: X10, +1 PER

To get a limitation for always on, there needs to be a drawback to being unable to shut the power off. I'm not seeing one here.

3) running, +6", +6" (12" total), OIHID
4) Leaping, +12", +12" (18" forward, 9" upward) OIHID
5) Strength, costs end to activate only, X2 endurance cost, +20 strength OIHID 17pts, 25 APts

It is not book legal to apply "costs END only to activate" to anything but a select group of body affecting powers. Bonus STR isn't one of them. It is also not book-legal to apply an advantage to reduce END and a limitation to increase it to the same power. I might allow both in my game (though not in the context you're applying it), but you asked about book legality.

6) other stats, OIHID, +20 dex, +10 con, +5 body, +5 ego, +20 Pre, +2 spd, all linked with strength, total of 79 pts, 140 APts

As others have noted, the Link to STR is not determined accurately. You should also note that, if your character is Stunned or Knocked Out, all nonpersistent powers shut off. This would include your STR, and thus everything linked to it.

7) armor, 15 resistant PD, 5 resistant ED, linked to str, OIHID
8) Power Defense, 20 pts, OIHID, linked to str

Again, I don't believe the Linked and OIHID go together.

9) Weapon--, FOCUS, unbreakable, expendable (extremely difficult to get another), obvious and removeable, 62pts

I assume you mean Obvious and Accessible. Expect it to be taken away regularly - that is what the limitation means. As pointed out above, "expendable" means it's like a material component for a spell in D&D - you use it once and it disappears, forever powerless. You can't use the powers again until you get a new one, which is "extremely difficult" - ie likely requires a lot of time and effort, with no guarantee of success. Bottom line: expect to lack these powers a lot more often than you have access to them. You save a lot of points with those limitations. The result is a lot of utility lost.

multipower, magical
-- Darkness, 5" radius, sight group, personal immunity, 62 APts, costs 2
-- Illusion, 1" radius, sight group, normal touch and hearing, +/-5 PER, mobile, costs endurance only to activate, difficult to dispel, costs 2pts, 62 APts
-- Flight, 20", positional shift, cost end only to activate. costs 2 pts, 62 APts
-- Weapon Damage, +6d6 HtH damage, affects any form of desolidification, costs 2 pts, 60 APts

Again, costs END only to activate is bok legal only on certain body alteration powers, so by the books the Illusion and Flight are both illegal. This is something I'd likely consider allowing, although there would have to be a way to shut it off.

You should also note that, when you shift points out of Flight or Illusion, they would no longer be active, so they would shut down. You would have to reactivate them after using any other power in the Multipower.

A question about her weapon, do you take a normal weapon and enchant it or the powers it has is what it does? Like for example, if I say my focus is a staff that does normally 4d6 of normal damage, but I say in my focus' description that is has +6d6 of HtH damage, so does it do 6d6 + str or 10d6 + str?

It does what you pay for - 6d6 + STR in this case. In a Heroic game, you can pick up equipment for money, or just find it, but you have to pay for skills to be able to use it. In a Superheroic game, you pay points for all equipment, but need not pay points for the skills to use it. As well, it's generally accepted that your focus is readily replaceable (albeit your Expendable, hard to replace focus would be an exception).

another question, if I want to use my desolidification as a defense to replace dodges, parries and blocks, is there an advantage I must buy and which one? If I don't need any advantage, how would it work in the game? Lose the next phase? Or lose the next phase only for activating powers? Or use only half a phase? If instead of dodging, blocking or parrying I use my desolidification, what do I basically need to make it so?

You would either have to turn on your Desolid during your phase (which would mean you can't attack since any attack ends your phase, after which you can't activate Desolid) or abort to activate it after your phase. You can only Abort if you did not already have an action on your phase (eg if you move in Phase 4, you can't abort until phase 5). Aborting eliminates your next phase, so you will miss a lot of actions using this approach.

Oh yeah, my DM says the character is too strong for the campaign he's running, originally, my character had more disadvantages and 8 of speed, but he said that was too strong.

Well, you did say "by the book"...by the book, your GM is always right, whatever limits he chooses to apply to his game. And if you don't like the way he runs his game, maybe you should consider withdrawing from it.

I wouldn't conclude your character is too strong. I would say the character has taken far too many limitations on his powers, some of which in my view aren't worth the points, and others of which will mean extra power much of the time and no power some of the time.

If I were the GM, I wouldn't lose a lot of sleep over a character like this. After all, if it really causes trouble, all I have to do is prevent the character assuming Hero ID and hit you with a 4d6 RKA (you'll have a 3 DCV and no resistant defenses, so you should be bleeding to death after one hit). Not the approach I would generally take with a co-operative player, but your comments read like you are very much a "Player vs GM" kind of gamer. I could certainly be misinterpreting your tone.

question on the side, why ain't there any REAL dodges in the game? All you have is a DnD 2nd Ed. "dodge" that make you harder to hit... in my book, and in the normal world, someone that dodges is someone who is being attacked and tries to avoid it, not someone who attacks and must hit the guy who dodges

Dodge = getting out of the way = harder to hit = bonus to DCV. Maskes sense to me. Perhaps you should look at Block, which is a more "active" defense wherein you attempt to "hit" your target's OCV using your OCV.

As someone who starts his post "read my whole post", perhaps you should consider reading all the rules before criticizing them?

duh. yo ushould remove that OCV and DCV and replace them with real combat skills where the numbers comes from somewhere, OCV and DCV are abstract value that the guy who made the game decided what they should be.

As opposed to most games, which are based on objective and measurable real-life criteria, I suppose. Like objective, real life magic and objective real life mutant superpowers.

I mean when I use dodge, I want to roll my dodge skill, not add some number to some abstract value that comes from nowhere, and always corss referencing on some chart is long and breaks the intensity of the combat by stretching it, a good old dodge/block/parry skill roll to defend yourself is much better than always cross referencing on a darn table all the time. Abstract values are not really logical.

I think Block would be more to your liking. Alternatively, perhaps a different game system would be more to your liking. I don't find Hero combat that hard to grasp, and "cross-referencing charts" isn't something I've seen much of in over 20 years playing Hero, but there's a reason one game system doesn't take over - different tastes.

[Diamond Spear]

Greywolf,

You have the following:
Mutant Powers--, elemental group, does not work in water (as in "in the water" no me in the water), 60 APts

What exactly are you defining as "not in water"? Are you saying they will not work if your character is in the water? Or are you saying something else? Because unless you are saying that they will not work if your character is in the water than it isn't really a limitation. Also what level of limitation did you apply for "not in waer" (-1/4, -1/2?)?


And to some of you who have already replied to Greywolf, lighten up a little! We were all once new to HERO and we were all once young. Answer honestly but try not to be too critical of an obviously new member of the HERO commmunity.

[Sean Waters]

I want to know if my character is legal according to the rules, I don't care about my DM, I'll worry about that later.

Hey, buddy, are you getting the impression we have issues with your character

Welcome to the boards, BTW

[Phil]

I'll just add my tuppenth here, but concur with Diamond Spear. Calm down guys!

I want to know if my character is legal according to the rules, I don't care about my DM, I'll worry about that later.

Firstly, HERO being a toolkit, what is or isn't legal is 100% a GM decision. However, from what I've seen it's mostly book legal but not entirely.

IN a supers game, my character, when it goes into heroic ID

Just a question. How do you go into Hero ID? Put on power armour? Quick change in a phone box? Say the magical word "Shazoom!"? Understanding this would give us some idea of whether OIHID is a 'legal' limitation in your particular case. In general, as said, putting CHARs into OIHID is perfectly legal and very common.

As also mentioned above, be careful about being useless outside of Hero ID. Because it will, at some point, happen. As it stands, your character will be totally useless when not in Hero form. If nothing else, consider buying a range of useful skills. You could consider something like having some of your Magical Multipower available when not in Hero form (e.g. have a 20 point multipower when not in Hero form, which gains another 60 points when you change).

You'll also need to check what your GM's ruling about having CHARs as Powers and as OIHID, and how that affects Figured Characteristics. It would be perfectly legal for him/her to say you need to buy PD, ED, REC etc. separately under those circumstances.

1)Mutant Powers--, elemental group, does not work in water (as in "in the water" no me in the water), 60 APts
-- transfer, persistent, always on 2d6, no end, 17pts, 60 APts
-- Desolidification, no endurance, 60 APts
-- Invisibility to sight, hearing, smell/taste, and radio group, as well as detect, no fringe and 1/2 endurance cost, 24 pts, 60 APts

Comments above all very true. What is the 'element' you control? What is the exact limitation? What are you transferring? What is the special effect of the Desolid? Invisibility wont function as you want, because the transfer power is fully visible.

2)Night vision, Always on, rapid: X10, +1 PER

There's two views here. Either Always On isnt valid because it's not a disadvantage, as Hugh says. Or, as I'd play it, your vision is constantly focused on x10 magnification, which will give you chronic long-sightedness and act as functional blindness to things immediately around you! But then I am mean

6) other stats, OIHID, +20 dex, +10 con, +5 body, +5 ego, +20 Pre, +2 spd, all linked with strength, total of 79 pts, 140 APts
[...]
8) Power Defense, 20 pts, OIHID, linked to str

Again, as above, what do you mean by linked? I'd allow it, but my understand of it would be that these characteristics would only function in a phase in which you also used your full strength. So if you're not lifting something, hitting something or jumping something, you're functionally a dweeb!

9) Weapon--, FOCUS, unbreakable, expendable (extremely difficult to get another), obvious and removeable, 62pts multipower, magical
-- Darkness, 5" radius, sight group, personal immunity, 62 APts, costs 2
-- Illusion, 1" radius, sight group, normal touch and hearing, +/-5 PER, mobile, costs endurance only to activate, difficult to dispel, costs 2pts, 62 APts
-- Flight, 20", positional shift, cost end only to activate. costs 2 pts, 62 APts
-- Weapon Damage, +6d6 HtH damage, affects any form of desolidification, costs 2 pts, 60 APts

Firstly, doubt if its expendable. Go back and check your understanding here. Perhaps you mean charges? Secondly, you may want to take Weapon Damage out of the multipower. Otherwise you're saying that the staff does zero damage (or possibly just strength damage, depending on what your GM allows) until it's charged up. You may want to think about changing some of your multipower slots as well. At the moment they are all 'ultra' slots, which means you can only have any one power active at one time. So you cant hit someone and fly, you cant maintain Darkness and create an illusion, etc.

Oh yeah, my DM says the character is too strong for the campaign he's running, originally, my character had more disadvantages and 8 of speed, but he said that was too strong.

What you have to remember is that most games operate two limits. Firstly, there's the overall Character Point limit. In addition, many GMs have an active point limit, which says that no power can go over this. Furthermore, some GMs operate an even more sophisticated "Rule of X" system, which looks at different possible combinations of attack, defence and resistance to evaluate PCs. Personally, I use an Active Point limit, but I also include all characteristics in that. So, in a 60 AP limit game I wouldnt allow any SPD above 6 (because 6 SPD costs 60 character points if bought from scratch).

question on the side, why ain't there any REAL dodges in the game? All you have is a DnD 2nd Ed. "dodge" that make you harder to hit... in my book, and in the normal world, someone that dodges is someone who is being attacked and tries to avoid it, not someone who attacks and must hit the guy who dodges

As you know, by reference to D&D, different games do things in different ways. I dont have any particular experience of combat, unlike some, but I would actually suggest that a general dodge - in terms of moving around and making yourself mobile - is much more effective than a specific dodge - in terms of waiting for a particular blow and then leaping out of the way. In particular, the latter is totally useless for fast moving projectiles such as bullets, while the former may be of reduced impact but is valuable in all circumstances.

However, as stated, if you like making opposed die rolls you have some options in HERO.
a) Block. You could, if you wish, define your characters 'style' of Block as a Dodge. At the end of the day it's all Special Effects.
b) Missle Deflection. Cant be applied to hand-to-hand (unless your GM has a house rule, which many do).
c) Limited Desolidification, with activation die roll linked to a DEX-based 'Dodge' skill. You could recoup some points from this by taking a Physical Limitation "Cannot Dodge", which would probably be worth 5 points.

you should remove that OCV and DCV and replace them with real combat skills where the numbers comes from somewhere

To some extent I agree. I don't like the way OCV and DCV arent treated in the same way as Skills. Personally, I house rule it so that they are. Although this is largely a semantic issue, because in fact they are, they are just presented differently. Just as a Skill is linked to a CHAR and you can then buy additional 'levels' in it, CV is linked to DEX and you can buy specific Combat Skill Levels. I find the distinction a bit clumsy, hence I house rule it, but in terms of rules construction they're virtually identical.

Would it be possible to see improvement in a future edition? I mean when I use dodge, I want to roll my dodge skill

To be honest, I'd stake my entire annual salary on this not changing in any foreseeable revision of HERO. And I'd make no money from the deal, because I'd not get odds of any better than 1:100 against!

Hope that's been helpful. One more hint: HERO gamers are fanatical, highly articulate (as a rule) and extremely sensitive about their beloved game. I think you've raised a few eyebrows with the tone of your message. In the future, you'll probably get a better response if you at least pretend to be a sycophantic HERO-lover. It works for me!

Phil

[Sean Waters]

Hope that's been helpful. One more hint: HERO gamers are fanatical, highly articulate (as a rule) and extremely sensitive about their beloved game. I think you've raised a few eyebrows with the tone of your message. In the future, you'll probably get a better response if you at least pretend to be a sycophantic HERO-lover. It works for me!

Phil

ZORNWIL*:
...And spotteth twice they the camels before the third hour, and so, the Midianites went forth to Ram Gilead in Kadesh Bilgemath, by Shor Ethra Regalion, to the house of Gash-Bil-Bethuel-Bazda, he who brought the butter dish to Balshazar and the tent peg to the house of Rashomon, and there slew they the goats, yea, and placed they the bits in little pots.
Here endeth the lesson.
ZORNWIL:
Let us praise Hero. O Steve,...
FORUM:
O Steve,...
ZORNWIL:
...ooh, You are so big,...
FORUM:
...ooh, You are so big,...
ZORNWIL:
...so absolutely huge.
FORUM:
...so absolutely huge.
ZORNWIL:
Gosh, we're all really impressed down here, I can tell You.
FORUM:
Gosh, we're all really impressed down here, I can tell You.

WHAT?

*For it is he! And boy am I going to get it in the neck for dragging him into this one.....

[ghost-angel]

Let's take a look here...

characteristics:
STR 10
DEX 10
CON 10
BOD 10
INT 20
EGO 10
PRE 10
COM 20
--> from the look of those you're not very effective, they are smart and good looking but otherwise average. Legal, but not very useful.
derived characteristics:
PD 2
ED 2
SPD 2
REC 4
END 20
STUN 20
--> again, Legal but not very useful.

Powers:
Mutant: Elemental Control, 60-point powers, (30 Active Points); all slots Limited Power Power loses about a fourth of its effectiveness (Not in the water; -1/4)
1) Transfer 2d6, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2) (60 Active Points); Always On (-1/2), Limited Power Power loses about a fourth of its effectiveness (Not in the water; -1/4)
2) Desolidification , Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (60 Active Points); Limited Power Power loses about a fourth of its effectiveness (Not in the water; -1/4)
3) Invisibility to Sight, Hearing, Smell/Taste and Radio Groups and Detect , No Fringe, Reduced Endurance (1/2 END; +1/4) (60 Active Points); Limited Power Power loses about a fourth of its effectiveness (Not in the water; -1/4)
-->All of these are Self Effecting Powers, so "Not in the water" can only mean when the character is not submerged. It's probably not even worth the -1/4 unless the game takes places on a coastal city where the GM at least has access to water on a regular basis. We'll call that Legal.
-->Transfer, as other have pointed out you need a from/to definer. Does it transfer from some nature of incoming attack? Like when you're hit, or shot? And what does it boost? Not Legal as it currently stands.
-->Desol - ok I would never allow this but you don't have Affect Real World on anything. Keep in mind while this power is active you are effectively a non-player. But, it's Book Legal.
-->Invisibility, none of your powers have IPE, so if you activate them while this is on they become visible thus letting others know your location. Otherwise, it's a good construct to Sneak Around With. Note: Ivisible to Detect is grey ground, many GMs will not allow a blanket invisible to it, on the other hand many others will. Detects are usually bought with the Simulated Sense rule (I Detect Souls by Seeing Them, so it is a Sight Detect) and is thus covered by that Sense instead and not by "Detect." That one should require GM approval, or at least knowledge. Book Legal with Caveat.

Nightvision, +1 to PER Roll, Rapid: x10 (9 Active Points); Always On (-1/2)
Why is Always On a Limitation in this case? While you can apply a Limitation that does not mean it's appropriate, unless you define a reason it's a hinderence to alway cancel Darkness Modifiers and see quickly because of it I say Not Legal

Beyond that ... I would say that the Linked Limitation is Not Legal on the other powers, at all. First OIHID implies that you Activate/Bring Into Available Use all your powers at once and change into your Hero ID. If they are Persistent and you go into Hero ID (like stats, defenses, etc..) they Turn On. If they are Instant Powers they become available when you go to Hero Mode. Linking other powers to a OIHID and making them OIHID as well smells of cheese and bad munchkinism. Or a lack of understand of what OIHID implies, I'll go with that one.

I would like to add that due to the nature of HERO it is very difficult to decide whether or not a character is "Legal" without some context of the game. While things may be "Book Legal" and "Book Illegal" most people here allow for enough freeflow that they are willing to tweak slightly.

That and what may be legal in one Genre would not be alllowed in another, it is very difficult to divorce a HERO Character, or even Power, from Context. We tend to assume a default genre of Supers/Champions unless otherwise specified.

I'm not even commenting on the Dodge thing. Please read pages 356 thru 432 of the 5th Edition Revised Book for a full and complete understanding of HERO System Combat is it is drastically different from all versions of D&D. An example of Combat is on Page 430.

You may Abort To Desolidification if the GM decides that is a defensive action. All Aborts take your Next Phase Actions completely, thus you will lose your next phase if you Abort.

Beyond that - Welcome to HERO and the HERO Boards, we'll answer any question you have, multiple times and multiple ways.

[zornwil]

ZORNWIL*:
...And spotteth twice they the camels before the third hour, and so, the Midianites went forth to Ram Gilead in Kadesh Bilgemath, by Shor Ethra Regalion, to the house of Gash-Bil-Bethuel-Bazda, he who brought the butter dish to Balshazar and the tent peg to the house of Rashomon, and there slew they the goats, yea, and placed they the bits in little pots.
Here endeth the lesson.
ZORNWIL:
Let us praise Hero. O Steve,...
FORUM:
O Steve,...
ZORNWIL:
...ooh, You are so big,...
FORUM:
...ooh, You are so big,...
ZORNWIL:
...so absolutely huge.
FORUM:
...so absolutely huge.
ZORNWIL:
Gosh, we're all really impressed down here, I can tell You.
FORUM:
Gosh, we're all really impressed down here, I can tell You.

WHAT?

*For it is he! And boy am I going to get it in the neck for dragging him into this one.....

I can hardly wait to visit England again...so that I can pay my respects to Sean.

[zornwil]

To seriously answer on-topic (oh, btw, I thought Sean's post was quite funny actually), I've seen posters, even a couple long-times ones, post more challenging points against HERO, but, yes, you will get a backlash indeed. So just be prepared, but don't feel the need to pretend to be a syncophant.

That being said, I'll just toss of one cent (it's not even worth 2) to say "me, too" to people who have pointed out the character is a bit overpowering and the GM has a right to scale. 350 points is not a license to do "anything" with the 350. The GM can and should help though by being specific about the ranges he's looking for. Some of this is for a PC's and player's own good! Because PCs need to be somewhat balanced or they get one-punched quickly - and that's no fun, right? But, anyway, going in with an 8 SPD for a beginning character is a bit extraordinary, as the norm goes.

But the real thing I wanted to mention is that you can Dodge in other ways, as people have said. If you're really Martial-type guy, you can do a Martial Dodge (but you have to have a reason to be a Martial Artist). And Skill Levels with DCV can simulate the same. The idea, as someone said above, is that HERO is a toolkit. If you and your group want to create more Dodge maneuvers, though, they could easily do so by building off of the Skill Levels or Martial abilities, costing accordingly and making available accordingly.

[Greywolf2001ca]

aahh, I can't answer you all in one post but I'll clarify some things

This is a super hero, so it's suppose to be super strong, not a wuss that can't even fight bad guys or has a hard time fighting normals. She's suppose to survive big explosions, lasers, blasts from other supers, etc like in the comic books, not some super zeroes that gets killed in the first battle it participate in or by some explosions.

second, the staff is similar to Thor's in marvel
thanks for clarifying the weapon part

As I read some PMs, I think that the FOCUS part should go on the increase in stats when she transforms into her super heroic form because she needs the staff to use those powers but the focus would only be limited to activate the powers not to maintain them. The duration would be 24 hours without the staff before reverting to her normal mutant self. What would be the rough limitation reduction of the costs of the stats with something like that? I doubt it's the full value.


The mutant powers all comes from the same source, I made a multipower first but now I made an elemental power so it sucks up more points and makes her less powerful. Why I also reduced her number of disadvantages to 125 pts instead of 150, which will make the character easier to roleplay in the game instead of having lots of disadvantages. That is why I made an elemental power of them, because they have the same source and costs more than a multi.

Will try to answer your questions and clarify my stuff by person:

Killer shrike wrote: "Reasonable and consistent appearance change is all handled by Activation of Powers and/or SFX. You might want to read the general section under Powers in the Rulebook, whichever version you have. Key ideas like Activation of Powers, Reasoning from Effect, and SFX are covered therein."

When she activates the power of her staff to transform like Thor does, she transforms into something stronger but yet not much different in appearance, just enough to be hard to recognize with her "makeup" and suit. There is a nice visual effect when she changes as well as some sounds, but it does not affect the environment beyond fragile objects by breaking them like a glass window and small objects like a glass of water or something smaller. Llike highlander when they kill another highlander but at a much smallers scale, like ten meters of diameter or so tops. If I need to pay for that where should I put that cost? In a power like in the Strength power which represent mostly my transformation? Or elsewhere? Or on its own?


"As far as your actual character is concerned, what exactly is the concept? I see a mishmash of disparate abilities, but no concept. You might want to start by defining an origin for your character, or if you prefer a justification for why she has the powers you have chosen. As it is, it looks like the results of randomizer."

It has already been done, the short short version is that she is a mutant witch like the original Scarlet Witch, although she has not developped her magical abilities beyond exploring her magical staff.

BTW, if the staff changes into a cane when she is normal like for Thor, is that a power by itself or it would count as the Illusion power that is on it?


"Getting into specifics, what is the rationale for a "Mutant Powers" EC, and why doesnt it work in water? More to the point, how are the Transer, Invisiblity, and Desolid so closely related that if one is drained it makes sense for all of them to be drained?"

All her powers comes from one source, like if she was an fire dudette, or mystic or whatever, these comes from her mutant genes, as simple as that, as well as night vision, but that cannot be included in an elemental group unless DM says so, so I let that one out for the moment.

As for the transfer, I did not go into details as what it drains and to what because it was not what I asked about the character and it is irrelevent to the question. As to how it functions, think of Rogue in the X-Men ;), but she cannot absorb the thoughts or entire person though. It was originaly 4d6 without limitations, but it looked as if she was an undead or something, so I made her more into a Rogue-like power that she cannot touch anyone without hurting them.


"How are your other stats all linked with STR? Also, do you understand the implications of Linking? "

It's because I cannot activate one and not the other, I need to activate all of them at once, thus the link part because when she uses her staff to transform all those stats powers adds up to hers. So they need to work all at the same time, that is why I kept the endurance cost on the strength and only on activation because to transform fatigues her a little.


"As far as weapons are concerned, you don't take a normal piece of equipment weapon (Equipment is for heroic games), and then tack on other powers. You build the "weapon" as a Power (generally some variation of HA, HKA, EB, or RKA, but not necessarily), and limit it appropriately (generally with FOCI or Restrainable). If you want a +6d6 HA then you buy a Hand Attack Power. You can have multiple Powers represented by the same conceptual object if you want. All that aside, where did your water shy strength linked Mutant get such a shiny magic staff anyway?"

Like I said above, it's a super hero game, anything can happen and it is well explained in my 8 page shortened background which I will not copy here lol, I would agree with you if it were a fanatasy game or a normal people game, but it's not such a game. Why is everyone so scared when someone starts with a magical item anyways? I allow it in all my games as long as it is explained reasonably, no need to have a 100$ explanation to it, I even accept things like one went in ruins nearby and found something there. Have no clue what's all the fuss about magical items, it's like "Wooo! This guy is too powerful he has a magical item." lol, if he paid for it with his character points means he's weaker elsewhere, come on! Anyways, this has nothing to do with the topic so skip it ;) .

As for the does not work in water is only for her mutant powers, they turn off, but as mentioned elsewhere, some cannot turn off so I'll have to come up with another logical limitation since the system does not allow me to do it like she is in GURPS system.

"All that aside, the character in its current incarnation as presented is borderline legal, and terminally munchkiny. If I were the GM I'd bounce you back to the drawing board until you came up with a character that isnt such a blatant and clumsy attempt at powergamey point grabbing."

That's maybe because you think she was not a super hero, but in my book, she is a normal super hero with nothing fancy about her, she cannot through cars like the Hulk, she cannot blast mountains like Cyclops, and she cannot teleport infinitively like NIghtcrawler, etc. So I think she is a normal super hero with her strength and weaknesses. Just take a Psi against her and she's done for, I mean a normal combat, not surprise nothing, or pit her against a light making dude and she is going to have a very hard time, etc. I think you judge too quickly. And you made me laugh when you said powergaming, you cannot power game in a PnP unless the game is oriented in PowerGaming lol, it's a roleplaying game that the DM is making, there are some combats, but the game orbits around the characters and what they do not what they defeat, since it's a typical super heroes game, there is normally no killing in it.

Were I making a Super hero game, remove the things that goes against the rules, I would allow my character to play as well as other characters made out of 350 points, any combinason!!! Why? Because I was the one who said you had 350 points to make your character, if I wanted less powerful characters, I would lower the number of points that I give for character creation LOL, which my DM obviously didn't do, bad dm! lol

You can Abort to activate Desolid as a Defensive action. You can do that in combination with either Block or Dodge if you like, but the nature of going Desolid makes that pretty pointless in most circumstances. Aborting takes your entire next action. Once Desolid you would stay that way however until you chose to go solid again (unless your Desolid were limited in some way that forced the issue).

"You can Abort to activate Desolid as a Defensive action. You can do that in combination with either Block or Dodge if you like, but the nature of going Desolid makes that pretty pointless in most circumstances. Aborting takes your entire next action. Once Desolid you would stay that way however until you chose to go solid again (unless your Desolid were limited in some way that forced the issue)."

But the question was not me attacking but me being attacked. So this means that if someone attacks me, I can use my power to transform and lose my next phase? That's what I thought initially and is fine with me.

"Of course, any attack with "Affects Desolid" would smoke you, but that's what you get for using a primarily Body Affecting Power as a Defense."

I don't mind, that's the game, everyone has a weakness or there is always a way to hit or defeat someone no matter how tough their defense is. It's like a deck of magic the Gathering, you can have a super powerful deck that kills players within 5 turns, but doesn't mean your deck cannot be defeated by other decks more powerful than yours. You see, there is a natural law here, there is always more powerful, smarter, wiser, etc than you are. If a DM gives 350 points to make a super hero in Hero system, then you should expect to see super villains of 350 points or higher in his campaign, that's the rule and logic, what's the point in making wuss super villains all the time? lol

"What are you talking about?

A) It's been a decade or so since I played AD&D 2e, but there was no such thing as a "DODGE" that I recall.

B) The HERO System Dodge works out to +3 DCV which raises your passive chance to not be hit. Trying to avoid being hit makes you harder to hit. Where is the disconnect?"

In DnD you can "parry" in the 2nd Ed which gave you additional AC, lol.

In the hero system, you get AC for "dodging" in the for of additional DCV. BUT PLEASE, don,t tell me that if I dodge ONE GUY all the other guys get the same effect to their attack rolls. PLEASE! This would make this system totally crappy in combat. I mean, you dodge the attack of ONE guys, not all the others that will attack you in the same round LOL That is why a defense and attack roll are needed and logical. I like to defend my character myself, not by some abstract numbers.

You say that DCV and ACV is not abstract, well I tell you that DEX is abstract, it is based on nothing except a table that says that much dex means this or that, which means it is abstract and based on nothing. anyways, that's just my opinion, not my fault if I devised a game system that uses real stats. let's skip that one too. :)

actually, I don't mind adding one dice roll, and since someone, unless a super hero that has high speed like flash or silver lightning or 360 vision, cannot dodge all the attacks that comes to him from several ways at the same time, it's ridiculous. No, you defend yourself against one with dodge, parry against another, and block with your shield a third, you cannot dodge all the attacks that comes towards you in a phase, a phase is just a fraction of a round which is like very little time, no way your character can dodge so many attacks. The way you are talking is like people can dodge all the time and defend themselves all the time no matter how many hundreds of people are shooting or striking at him which is totally ridiculously illogical since the effect of numbers is not even there. It's absurd. This is the only thing I think the Hero system sucks at, the DCV and ACV, put attack rolls and defense rolls with the effects of numbers and you got yourself an almost perfect system. Rolling one or two mroe additional dice rolls ain,t that bad since you are actually rolling your character's skill.

As you can see, DCV makes no sense since it means no matter how many times he gets attacked he always has he DVC at a certain level which means he is dodging and ducking and parrying faster than Flas or Silver Lightning, which is totally absurd. I would apply the DCV only to the one you are fighting with, the other would have 1/2 and ones you cannot see would have to hit like a 1 or 2 DCV on their dice roll. A combine shot from a bunch of soldiers would be even more deadlier than several shooting at you from several angles, although the shots from several angles would limit your defense capability.

Now you see the big flaw in the system? Remove the DCV and ACV with skill rolls and you have a system that is quite hard to rival with. Not even GURPS would be able to rival with it. As for me, I think a simplified GURPS combat is more logical than a Hero simplified combat. If you add all the rules for both games, the combats are longer in RT but GURPS is still better.


Sean waters said:"Your weapon does the damage you bought for it: you don't get +4d6 for it being a staff, so 6d6 + STR."

ok thanks :)

"What does the transfer transfer to and from? What it WON'T do in the present form is transfer points to you if you are hit or grabbed - only if you use it as an attack, so I can not see the point of the persistent advantage."

But with the advantages and disadvantages I give it, it's like Rogue in X-Men but at a much lesser degree, you touch her skin with yours, you get damage. I was looking for a limitation that would be only skin contact but found none. What could be that limitation?


"You shouldn't get a limitation for stats/powers linked to strength as :

1. the STR seems to be the lesser power (-1/4 lim)
2. It will always be on (so 1/4 less limitation)


....plus the power defence linked to strength to avoid the strength being drained removes a large part of the limitation of inked anyway - a limtiation that doesn't limit is not worth anything. I think this baby is a lot more expensive than you think it is."

The link is to have the power being used all together. she has power defense nonetheless. If I remove the link part, I use compound power and put all the powers that are "linked" together and put the focus limitation on it, would it work? Since she needs the staff to transform and acquire those powers.

"I'm not sure you want that focus 'expendable - that means it has to be replaced after each use. I'm not sure what you mean by 'removeable' -all focii are 'removeable' anyway."

You should use the hero builder software, that is where it comes from I just copied the text, and you are only taking ONE WORD out of the sentence. It is written something like Expendalble (extremely difficult to obtain a new one) since it is mostly unique and can only be retaken not created unless the creator wishes to but it's a cosmic-like entity. But that's another story that has nothing to do with the subject at hand.

"As for OIHID - you need to define what you need to do to 'get into hero form' -there has to be some limitation - probably some way to STOP you getting into Hero Form, or some limitation (for instance extra time) on doing so."

Yeah, that's already defined, I need the staff to do so :) . Without the staff, I'm a wuss mutant with no stats or defense beyond a good IQ and some spy-like powers hehe.

"No idea what you mean on the 'dodge' point. DCV is not the same as AC in DnD: that combines difficulty of being hit and resistance to damage, which are seperate in Hero. Someone dodging is harder to hit, but can still be hit (you can always dive for cover...). You can always build a dodge with levels if you want to do it that way."

Read further above...

"As for the DM: you should care or you won't be playing. Everything is relative to the other players and the villains being used. If the character never gets hit and knocks down villains like nine-pins, yes it is too 'strong' for the campaign. I'd talk through the specific concerns if I were you."

Well, it's the DM's fault not mine, he should give less points to build super heroes in the first point. Bad DM I say. How can you have a character that is "TOO STRONG" if all characters are built with the same amount of points? LOL If I make a 350 point including 150 pts of disadv. then all players should be around that level too depending on the amount of disadv they took. So it is obviously not my fault if the DM is crappy like that by saying "Hey! boohoo! Your character is too strong for my game... boohoo!" Well, he should have given players less points to make their characters in the first place ,DUH!!!!! This is SOOOO BEGINNER as DM, but he's older than me I think lol, Maybe I should talk to him about how silly what he says sounds like. hehe anyways, let's skip this one too, it has nothing to do with the actual subject, I said I'll worry later about the DM I play with.

I care about the settings that is why I need you guys' help in making the character respect the rules in the book.


Hugh Neilson said:"OIHID requires a limiting factor. How does the character change to Hero ID? I've seen a number of characters where "linked" is used to replace OIHID. I would generally not allow a charcater to run a full power suite both OIHID and Linked to some power there's no drawback (and that means a drawback greater than simply staying in HID) to maintaining at all times anyway."

What if I use compound power, put all those linked powers in it instead, put OIHID with Focus - Staff as the catalyst to transform instead? Would make things logical no?

"OIHID is a limitation. You should expect that, at some time in game, you will be unable to take on your hero ID. Will your character be useful for anything during these times, or will you be frustrated that the GM is "picking on yoiur character" and preventing you from using your abilities.

A -1/4 limitation reeduces cost by 20%. Expect to see utility reduced a similar amount."

Well, she is still able to do her spy stuff with her innate mutant power, so she can still get away and hide... she also has her Rogue-like ability which can knock out mundanes and a few other super heroes with low str since she drains strength and adds it to two other stats. But the main thing is that her main powers comes from the staf and the limited transformation she goes through.

The limitation will still be a limitation and an even more once someone knows who she is really since she would be more vulnerable.

""Mutant" is a background detail, not a basis for an elemental control. It's no better a linkage than "EC: Superpowers".

Others have noted you need to define what your Transfer transfers to and from. Note also that it is limited to 12 points of effect (ie you can add 12 CP to the item it transfers to, no more). Your Transfer as defined means it can never be shut off - anyone you touch faces its effect. As an END using power (despite having the END bought to zero), it is visible to three sense groups, so forget any likelihood of ever being stealthy. Finally, it can't be both "always on" and "only in hero ID", as the latter contradicts the former.

Note that none of your other powers have any effect while you are desloid unless purchased to "affect solid world".

Your Invisibility is completely useless, as it will not render the effects of your Transfer (visible to three sense groups and always on) any less detectable. Technically it's legal, it's just useless."

The mutant powers part awas only to make it a short version, that's background related and has nothing to do with my original question if it was abiding to the rules of the book, that's between me and the DM so skip it.

I didn't mention what were the stats the transfer was affecting because it was irrelevent to my question, as it is only background and in-game only and does not affect character creation, it is only an effect and does not affect cost or legality of character.

As mentioned earlier, she cannot be touched like Rogue in the X-Men, which is a disadvantage by itself somewhat, and as above mentioned, I'll remove the conflicting and this power is not OIHID, it's her mutant powers, all of her mutant powers are not OIHID, they are always there unlike her transformation powers which costs more than all the other powers because of the stats increase mainly.

as for the night vision being always on, got a point ;)

"It is not book legal to apply "costs END only to activate" to anything but a select group of body affecting powers. Bonus STR isn't one of them. It is also not book-legal to apply an advantage to reduce END and a limitation to increase it to the same power. I might allow both in my game (though not in the context you're applying it), but you asked about book legality."

It was only to simulate the stransformation she goes through, it's not the actual strength power that costs X2 endurance upon activation itself. That is why perhaps I should use a compound power and put the OIHID limitation as well as FOCUS-staff limitation as a catalyst for this transformation.

Only to activate does not reduce endurance, it just says you need to pay only to activate not maintain.well not really reducing anyways ;)

I will only add persistent to the stats and not the defenses as she loses them when KO. But can I do that in a compound power? or would I need to do 2 compound powers since some are affected when KO and others not.

"I assume you mean Obvious and Accessible. Expect it to be taken away regularly - that is what the limitation means. As pointed out above, "expendable" means it's like a material component for a spell in D&D - you use it once and it disappears, forever powerless. You can't use the powers again until you get a new one, which is "extremely difficult" - ie likely requires a lot of time and effort, with no guarantee of success. Bottom line: expect to lack these powers a lot more often than you have access to them. You save a lot of points with those limitations. The result is a lot of utility lost."

Ah thanks for clarifying that out, I didn,t know the expendable part was that, I thought it was how difficult it would be to replace it. If the item is unique and can only be replaced by some extreme circumstances what would be the additional increase to the cost of the limitation then?

"Again, costs END only to activate is bok legal only on certain body alteration powers, so by the books the Illusion and Flight are both illegal. This is something I'd likely consider allowing, although there would have to be a way to shut it off.

You should also note that, when you shift points out of Flight or Illusion, they would no longer be active, so they would shut down. You would have to reactivate them after using any other power in the Multipower."

Well, I want my illusions to only cost on activation, and no, I wont use many of my staff's powers at the same time, the multipower simulates a limited form of concentration that is not worth a limitation in itself. Since she is not a cosmic or magical being, she cannot use the entire power of the staff, like for such an entity, it would be considered an elemental power instead of a multi power and it could use all the power at once if it chooses to do so. A really nice plot for a game, bad guy cosmic being steals staff to rule the world but must study it first to develop its powers :D .

I put only on activation because I only need to pay to activate it and not to maintain it and as long as I'm not using another power of the staff or shutting it down willingly or being KO'ed.

"You would either have to turn on your Desolid during your phase (which would mean you can't attack since any attack ends your phase, after which you can't activate Desolid) or abort to activate it after your phase. You can only Abort if you did not already have an action on your phase (eg if you move in Phase 4, you can't abort until phase 5). Aborting eliminates your next phase, so you will miss a lot of actions using this approach."

I don't mind losing phases, she is not a warrior but a spy which needs to strike down the ones that spotted her as quickly as possible, that is why she does not have alot of defenses and is relatively weak against energy and psionics with her low ego and low total ED. If let's say I say that I will attack but someone attacks me first and I change my mind and desol, whichi means I lose my attack instead of losing next phase right? But if I attacked and I get attacked but only did 1/2 a phase by attacking only thus remaining 1/2 a pahse, which means if I use a defensive power I would only lose next phase right? Those two things is was i want, I don't mind losing phases, she is not the kind of super hero that will jump into a battle, she will stay behind and will defend those injured or a mundane or really weak super only and herself of course, if no one attacks her then she wont fight. although she could help out by annoying the opponents with her darkness ;)

"I think Block would be more to your liking. Alternatively, perhaps a different game system would be more to your liking. I don't find Hero combat that hard to grasp, and "cross-referencing charts" isn't something I've seen much of in over 20 years playing Hero, but there's a reason one game system doesn't take over - different tastes."

That's what I did, I don't like to have an "AC" to hit, I like to actively defend myself and not just roll a "To hit" roll versus a number no matter what the other did like in the DUll and Dreary system. ;) and sorry for the tones, not really hostile in any way. :)

But hero is still around which means it's a decent system that has its strength in some logic in comparison to the Dull and Dreary system which is only there because of its popularity and not its quality :D .


Diamond spear said:"What exactly are you defining as "not in water"? Are you saying they will not work if your character is in the water? Or are you saying something else? Because unless you are saying that they will not work if your character is in the water than it isn't really a limitation. Also what level of limitation did you apply for "not in waer" (-1/4, -1/2?)?

And to some of you who have already replied to Greywolf, lighten up a little! We were all once new to HERO and we were all once young. Answer honestly but try not to be too critical of an obviously new member of the HERO commmunity."

I only applied the lowest -1/4 since the powers will not work when she is submerged as well as the range attack not being able to happen in water, like for example, the darkness cannot work inside the water but she can use it if she is not totally submerged. That was the original intent, but i will change it for something else if I there is some other limitation or if the compound power idea works I'll simply remove it since I'll have enough points to pay for everything in that group.

As for people that replied, I didn't see anythign wrong in their post before yours Diamond Spear, it's okay really. No appologies or whatever required :)


Phil said:"Just a question. How do you go into Hero ID? Put on power armour? Quick change in a phone box? Say the magical word "Shazoom!"? Understanding this would give us some idea of whether OIHID is a 'legal' limitation in your particular case. In general, as said, putting CHARs into OIHID is perfectly legal and very common.

As also mentioned above, be careful about being useless outside of Hero ID. Because it will, at some point, happen. As it stands, your character will be totally useless when not in Hero form. If nothing else, consider buying a range of useful skills. You could consider something like having some of your Magical Multipower available when not in Hero form (e.g. have a 20 point multipower when not in Hero form, which gains another 60 points when you change).

You'll also need to check what your GM's ruling about having CHARs as Powers and as OIHID, and how that affects Figured Characteristics. It would be perfectly legal for him/her to say you need to buy PD, ED, REC etc. separately under those circumstances."

She wont be useless, she still has her mutant powers which are okay and the few powers of the staff she knows but can only use one at a time because of the multi. but her stats and protection are, in a super hero game, absent. She is just a well trained mundane in stats except for her com and Int which are quite high for mundanes. Beside her staff and mutant powers, she has nothing else to defend herself when not in HID, but she is not entirely defenseless, just a very weak mutant with a few powers and an apprentice witch who can't use any magic yet beyond her staff's powers.I think I will even put limitations on her staff's powers as to haveo only on the illusions being useable out of heroic ID since this is mainly the real power that needs to be used out of the heroic ID, the others are not really necessary. The other would only be useable OIHID as well as all the new powers the staff might have.

As mentioned above, she uses her staff by saying a few words to transform into her super form with all those high stats and protection and powers. Then a 2 meter in diameter sphere of darkness surrounds her with dark crackling energies about that pushes back small items and breaks fragile ones within a small 10 meter radius if in an open area otherwise limited to the room she is in.

Also, to make my character enter the group, it is imperative that she has mutant powers, since otherwise, there cannot be any other reason why she would join up with a gang of supers with her background. There is a high tech dudette in the group which would detect my genes as mutated and ask to join them perhaps. Or whatever the DM thinks of. hehe

"Comments above all very true. What is the 'element' you control? What is the exact limitation? What are you transferring? What is the special effect of the Desolid? Invisibility wont function as you want, because the transfer power is fully visible."

the transfering too is not important, so i did not include it in my description but is on my character sheet though, so everyone don't worry about that.

The special effect of desolidification she becomes spectral, like a ghost if you want but a bit scarier, hehe but not enough to cause fear though. So the power is visible unlike Kitty Pride in X-Men where you cannot tell if she is desolidified or not. Would that count as a limitation of visible in Hero? Since you cannot tell when one is solid or not as long as you don't touch him with something.

I didn't see anything that would group her mutant powers together, so I used an elemental power, you could say that her powers comes from her mutant genes, she's born like that and occured in her teens like all good mutants. So those powers comes from her mutant genes, not from magic, cosmic, psi, elemental, or whatever other power groups, as simple as that.

hey, I like Hero system, but the OCV and DCV downgrades it, it would be much better with real skills instead of those, anyways, this is just what I think... let's wait until my game system comes out someday then we'll see which system is best mwhahahaha! ;)


ghost-angel said:"-->Invisibility, none of your powers have IPE, so if you activate them while this is on they become visible thus letting others know your location. Otherwise, it's a good construct to Sneak Around With. Note: Ivisible to Detect is grey ground, many GMs will not allow a blanket invisible to it, on the other hand many others will. Detects are usually bought with the Simulated Sense rule (I Detect Souls by Seeing Them, so it is a Sight Detect) and is thus covered by that Sense instead and not by "Detect." That one should require GM approval, or at least knowledge. Book Legal with Caveat."


The invisibility is just for sneaking not fighting so no prob with that. The detect part advantage is to not being able to detect her with a detect mutant device or power as well as detect lifeforms, detect humans, etc.


And thanks for the help, tell me what you think about putting all the stats and defense and all those powers linked to strength into a compound one with the limitation of OIHID and FOCUS - staff to activate the power with the cost of endurance being only to activate the compound power.

[AliceTheOwl]

Um, whoa.

Okay, couple of points:

When she activates the power of her staff to transform like Thor does, she transforms into something stronger but yet not much different in appearance, just enough to be hard to recognize with her "makeup" and suit. There is a nice visual effect when she changes as well as some sounds, but it does not affect the environment beyond fragile objects by breaking them like a glass window and small objects like a glass of water or something smaller. Llike highlander when they kill another highlander but at a much smallers scale, like ten meters of diameter or so tops. If I need to pay for that where should I put that cost? In a power like in the Strength power which represent mostly my transformation? Or elsewhere? Or on its own?

That sounds like Special Effect, which doesn't cost anything. If you want it to deal physical damage, as in to anyone around when you transform, then you can buy it as a linked power. I'll let the others tackle that one.

I care about the settings that is why I need you guys' help in making the character respect the rules in the book.

Most important rule? "Your GM gets the final say."

A good rule of thumb, and I don't know if this is official anywhere, but a good rule of thumb is that you should be able to defend against 1 1/2 times what you can dish out. So if, for instance, your most powerful attack does 10d6 physical, you should be able to take 15d6 of physical damage at a time without hurting. It's not quite a house rule, but it's a strong suggestion my GM (who's also my husband) gives to all his players, and I've found that it's saved my butt in several instances.

That's . . . about all I can tell ya. I gotta get back to work now.