The Role Models

[McCoy]

I believe Alan Moore onece said that all Superheros are derivitive of Superman, with powers beyond human, Batman, with no powers except skill and training, or both.

Much as I respect his work, in this case I believe he over simplified.

What characters, in addition to Superman and Batman, have inspired tributes, clones and imitators?

If you had a potential new player, who knew nothing of the genre, what characters would you want them exposed to before they started character creation?

Thanking everyone in advance!

[GoldenAge]

I think, at a very basic level, he's right.

Either their super powered, super skilled... or both. This simple set of criterion applies to every hero, from classics like Tarzan, Doc Savage and the Shadow to the most modern of heroes like Steel, Firestorm and Sentry.

Perhaps you're looking for original archetypes?

[McCoy]

Perhaps you're looking for original archetypes?

Perhapse.

[Hermit]

I believe Alan Moore onece said that all Superheros are derivitive of Superman, with powers beyond human, Batman, with no powers except skill and training, or both.

Much as I respect his work, in this case I believe he over simplified.

I would say he's not going far back enough... because leaving morality out of it (because it sounds like he's focusing on the power issue), he just described Hercules and Odysseus Heroes from myth have almost always fallen into the "Mightier than Mortal Man" or "More cunning than others" categories.

What characters, in addition to Superman and Batman, have inspired tributes, clones and imitators?

Among super heroes?
Spider-Man brought us the "hard luck hero" the super with flaws. He pretty much set the stage for 'more human' characters... powers aside.

Wolverine, as much as I don't like the trend he fostered, must be honored as a source for "grittier" heroes to come.

Dr. Strange and Dr. Fate are practically THE archetypes for mystic masters, particularly Doc Strange thanks to Ditko truly amazing vision.

If you had a potential new player, who knew nothing of the genre, what characters would you want them exposed to before they started character creation?

Thanking everyone in advance!

Depends on the feel of the 'age' I was going for and the nature of the campaign's team I was trying to promote. Team books might be more useful for a group event like RPGs, so if I was going for the "us against the world" I'd pick Claremont's early X-men. If I was going for "We are the first best chance for saving the world" I'd go with either Avengers or JLA. Then I'd see which characters/concepts that player liked.

I also have to admit that for drawing someone in to the genre, the movies that have come out in my life time might be a better idea than the comic books to teach him. Sad, but true; most folks look less askance when you suggest a movie than when you hand them a comic book (Which they most likely have heard all their lives is 'for children' or something like that).

[Badger]

I guess since Superman and Batman were essentially the first of their kind. They are the ones to compare to. If that is what he meant I agree. If not, well... they arent the only ones. I know a lot of cases where they are basically Captain America clones. I've noticed a few on these boards anyhoo.

I know my personal PCs I create are inspired by characters of Japanese origin. At least in where their power comes from, and most cases background. For some reason I seem to "relate" better with characters in Japanese anime than characters in American comics. I know the character I use most in WWYCD my namesake, is based on several anime characters. Most notably Vegeta, though with far less of an ego problem. Heck, legends from Europe influence me a lot too. I've tinkered off and on with an Irish female PC of banshee ancestry. I've got other projects in the works currently though.

Oh and I guess Spider-Man influences on me too. At least in the fact I like to have characters who have been spliced with an animal's DNA. Or maybe more often injected with a serum that gave a said animal's powers to them.

Oh and the other character I use some on WWYCD, Frosty Bob, orginally a friend's creation was essentially part Ash from AoD, part Punisher, with a heaping helping of immortality.

[assault]

We could probably add characters like Mandrake and Zatara, both of whom preceded Superman, and had at least some degree of "magic" powers.

Batman, of course, was preceded both by Pulp characters and the Phantom.

[OddHat]

Well, for specific powers we can go back as far as you like into deep mythology. Myself, I tend to think from the pulps forward.

Tarzan - The man of nature, incredibly strong and possessed of unspoiled nobility.

The Spider - The man of indomitable will. When the hero triumphs over adversity through the pure power of his will alone, he is channeling the Spider. He gave us the first costume meant to inspire terror.

Doc Savage - The man of science, the paragon. Batman owes as much to him as the Shadow, and he left his fortress and first name to Clark Kent. Also featured one of the first groups that could nearly have been a Super-Team, even if they were sidekicks.

The Shadow - Master of the mysteries of the east, master of darkness, an endless network of contacts. He also gave us much of the Secret Identity tradition.

Zatara - In part a Mandrake clone, but he was there in Action Comics #1, and had true magic powers from the start. The gentleman mage.

Gladiator - Superman's original power set was lifted almost straight from this character, as well as much of his early personality. The difference is that poor Hugo Danner never found a way to use his power that didn't end up making things worse. Angry and self pitying Super Heroes all owe a debt to the original Gladiator.

Doctor Occult - The first true Detective Mage. John Constantine owes a lot to this guy. He also pre-dates Superman.

The Lensman - Crime is a vast intergalactic conspiracy; a benevolent alien gives training and devices of power to humans in order to oppose it. The Silver Age Green Lantern owes a lot to the Lensman, and so (oddly) does Captain Marvel.

Flash Gordon - The greatest of the space adventurers.

John Carter of Mars - Astral projection of a sort, effective super strength, some telepathy, and more high weirdness than you could shake a stick at. The Martian Man hunter and other hodge-podge heroes take a page from John Carter.

Captain Marvel - The young boy who can change into a hero with a single word of power. He gave us much of the wish fulfillment goofiness that would become the Silver Age, and turned the Lensman family of heroes into something mystical.

Wonder Woman - I hesitated to add her. Often written badly from the beginning, she was the first attempt to make a female Superman. She owed quite a bit to the pulp character She.

May of these archetypes share characteristics, but all of them bring something new to the table. We tend to oversimplify too much, especially when making lists. "There are only seven plots", "there are only two Heroes", "there are only two genders", etc. Most of it is a device for starting classroom conversations.

[JmOz]

Archie Comics gives us the Shield, the first Flag Suited Hero, Captain America you owe this man alot

[McCoy]

Obviously I'm not asking the right question.

• Superman
• Batman
• Green Lantern
• Flash
• Wonder Woman
• Captain America
• Iron Man
• Spider-Man
• Wolverine

Each of these brings something unique to the party. I don't think you canbe said to be familiar withthe genre without a passing familiarity with these characters.

Who else belongs on the list?

[Bloodstone]

The Hulk

[Blue]

I think ever since the famous "Alcoholic cover", Iron Man has inspired a certain number of "flawed heroes". I know that it made me add some dimension to my own characters, realizing that I never wanted to play a Superman-type who can do everything and whose only weakness is some rare element. I like the demons within as enemies in my heroes.

Wolverine will get a lot of disrespect (especially here on the boards), but he brought focus back onto something the Hulk had introduced; A guy not fully in control of himself, but trying to do good.

Wonder Woman inspired plenty of hot chicks in skimpy outfits. Okay, a dubious achievement, but I'm not complaining.

If we want to throw in villains, I think Galactus was the first true intergalactic menace. If Galactus showed up on the cover of a comic, you knew the entire planet was in trouble.

[OddHat]

Obviously I'm not asking the right question.

• Superman
• Batman
• Green Lantern
• Flash
• Wonder Woman
• Captain America
• Iron Man
• Spider-Man
• Wolverine

Each of these brings something unique to the party. I don't think you canbe said to be familiar withthe genre without a passing familiarity with these characters.

Who else belongs on the list?

Comics only? All the pulp characters I named above, plus -

• Doctor Strange
• Prof Xavier - You need a Telepathic Hero
• Captain Marvel - The power set is similar to Supes, but the boy-to-hero aspect is distinct.
• Magneto - Not for the power set, but as the villain turned Hero (and so on)
• Hulk - One monstrous hero is called for. He was doing rage long before Wolverine.
• Plastic Man - You need a stretchy guy
• Herakles - God turned modern hero, and he beat Thor into the comics.
• Doctor Occult - He was using magic to solve mysteries and fight mystic foes from 1935. Also, our first transgendered hero.

[BlackSword]

Each of these brings something unique to the party. I don't think you canbe said to be familiar withthe genre without a passing familiarity with these characters.

Who else belongs on the list?

Depends on what you want.
Hawkman/woman show what 50 years of convulted backgrounds can do to a character.

If talking about comics familiarity, I would recommend adding teams:

JLA/Avengers - the powerhouses of the chosen universe band together to fight world or galaxy threatening villains
X-Men - As a team of unwanted and mostly disliked (in their world)heroes fight to protect others like them and those that scorn them.
JSA - In its current run, a team of heroes that, for the most part, exist solely in the team book. Also a team of the original Mystery Men passing their knowledge to the next generation.

[teh bunneh]

I second the nomination of Iron Man. An ordinary, non-powered guy who builds a machine (in this case, armor) that lets him compete with the big boys. One of my favorite archtypes.

Bill.

[GoldenAge]

[*]Captain Marvel - The power set is similar to Supes, but the boy-to-hero aspect is distinct.[/LIST]

Actually, in addition to Captain Marvel's connection to the "every boy" through Billy Batson, his power set was quite different from his contemporary Superman. He was immensely faster, incredibly stronger, could fly and his powers were solidly based on gifts from gods... not a hodgepodge of scientific accidents like Superman. Marvel also had the Marvel Family (Mary and Marvel Jr. came before Supergirl and Superboy) and a bald, genius, corporate super villain - Sivanna. Superman writers later copied both of these Marvel innovations.

In truth, if it weren't for Captain Marvel, Superman would be nothing like the character we have today... and there'd be no Lex Luthor!

Not to say that Fawcett didn't cash in by making a bigger, better version of an already popular character, just that Captain Marvel was more original than people realize.

Sorry... big Cap fan.