Enemies of San Angelo

[Suleyman Rashid]

Of course. We're always open to suggestions. We can't guarantee they will be included, but we're open to them, and have asked for them a few times on the GRG boards.

I don't have the book in front of me, and I cannot remember the character's name, unfortunately. The android "weapons supplier" who doesn't know he's an android and was created by the artificially intelligent supercomputer...

He needs to not be in power armor. I introduced him to the players and they keyed almost immediately to the fact that he's a machine based solely on his appearance. Make him look like a middle aged scientist... a schlub, in other words, and he works so much better.

[Kirby]

I love Enemies of San Angelo! It has my favorite individual villain (Deadweight! After reading his write-up and build, you'll see why I was so disappointed in Gravatar) and one of my favorite villain teams, Anarchy. (I even had plans for them -in a previous campaign- to ambush Eurostar when Eurostar came after the PCs.) I like the Scions so much that I've been trying to create a mentalist with that name to fit into campaigns. Out of the many (33, did MitchellS say?) characters, there were only 3 that I didn't care for, which is a much lower number than other books.

I personally love the San Angelo campaign setting; it's what I use for my face-to-face game. I really can't see how you'd be disappointed with this book. Nearly every piece of artwork is great, practically every villain has a 'normal' who has some history with said villain, it really is a great book. The only thing I wish the book had (that I can recall) is that the villain Chrome's write-up included a write-up for the deceased hero Alloy.

If you have the opportunity to purchase it, do so!

[Kirby]

I don't have the book in front of me, and I cannot remember the character's name, unfortunately. The android "weapons supplier" who doesn't know he's an android and was created by the artificially intelligent supercomputer....

Dr. Talos.

[Suleyman Rashid]

Dr. Talos.

Yeah, that's the one.

[Lord Liaden]

I've used Dr. Talos and Prometheus (with modifications) in my own campaign. Among the modifications, I changed the robot's name to Dr. Daedalus. IMO "Talos" is just too much of a giveaway that it's actually a robot. OTOH "Daedalus" better suits the Doctor's role as a technical genius for hire, and keeps the connection to Talos for clever PCs to eventually figure out.

I enjoyed Enemies of San Angelo quite a bit. There were a number of interesting, original concepts there. Personal favorites included the abovementioned Prometheus and Dr. Talos, Anarchy (good focussed group motivation, and some cool backgrounds), Deadweight (a thug with an innovative gimmick), Mastermind (the only thing more disturbing than a hero who's gone too far, is one with the mental powers to make you do the same); and my fave of the group, Senora del Oro - wonderful name, rich background, defined and understandable motivations, and a logical powerset. Also, one of the nicest illustrations in the book.

[Hex]

It was a deeply refreshing reminder of why I liked Hero for Supers. And Deadweight was one of the funnest one-trick ponies I've ever thrown at my players.

That was an embarrassing throw down. *muttergrumble*

[Gold Rush Games]

Are you guys still looking for feed back on what people would like to see in a 2e book?

Always.

Not trying to get in your business, but I've got a couple of quick questions. What the minimum number of sales you'd need to at least break even?

I prefer not to speak about such financial details. Suffice it to say that selling at least 800 copies through distribution (or 400 copies via direct sale) would be enough to get the books published.

Unfortunately, The Dragons Gate, SACoH 1.5 and other more recent releases have sold far less than that. Thus the hiaitus as we develop a new strategery for the SACoH and other lines.

Knowing that folks are still interested in an updated SACoH line of products (with HERO 5th Ed stats) is certainly encouraging, however!

Would a PDF be cheaper for you to produce,

Cheaper to pblish, yes, but they cost the same to develop (i.e., paying authors, artists, time to design/layout, etc.).

[Gold Rush Games]

The only thing I wish the book had (that I can recall) is that the villain Chrome's write-up included a write-up for the deceased hero Alloy.

That gives me an idea for an interesting supplement:

San Angelo Legends - a book of past heroes and villains (including deceased ones, ones from the Golden and Silver Ages, etc.). They would all be officially "out of circulation," yes, but they could easily be introduced into an existing campaign with any justifcation the GM wanted.

Thoughts?

[ThothAmon]

I liked Enemies Of San Angelo. The writeups provide characters that are more human than the generic supers found in certain other supplements.

[RPMiller]

One of the things I might suggest doing to help drum up some San Angelo interest is to start putting some new material on your website every week, bi-weekly, or even monthy in a "Shadows of San Angelo" column. This is the place where you can post a historic character [Pulp, Golden, Silver, Bronze Age], either hero or villain. You can post a character update from the, hopefully, upcoming 2nd Edition. You can post a short story or perhaps an original idea on an area of San Angelo. If you are looking at a long period before we can expect to see an updated product then use that time to whet our appetite.

Sometimes it's just not enough to say: here's our new book, buy it. Sometimes you need to arouse, tease, and stimulate our imaginations to the point where we MUST have the new book to feel sated.

We do post things to our own forums from time to time. Your idea is certainly a good one. I'll have to consider doing something like this. Thanks, , and have some rep for the suggestion.

[OddHat]

WOW!! I am pleased to see these responses. Always good to hear about folks using the SA line. I've seen a lot of talk about the city book and Enemies. How many of you are using the Denizens book? What were your impressions of it?

As an aside, I went through and updated all the character stats in all the books to 5th ed, but we are waiting to put them into SACoH 2e once we figure out who makes the 'cut', and what their 'growth' will be. Mark and I have kicked around several ideas of the changes that have occurred over the last several years. You'll have to wait to see what those are.

Also, we need to determine if it will be worth it to us to jump back into the line. I will also add that there are a few discussions on the GRG boards about the line and upcoming news for any interested in reading it.

Just wanted to mention how much my wife and I enjoy the SA line. I'd gladly pick up a 5thEd update, and/or more San Angelo Hero System books.

[Dominique]

That gives me an idea for an interesting supplement:

San Angelo Legends - a book of past heroes and villains (including deceased ones, ones from the Golden and Silver Ages, etc.). They would all be officially "out of circulation," yes, but they could easily be introduced into an existing campaign with any justifcation the GM wanted.

Thoughts?

Or, how about Legends of San Angleo, not that big of a change, but it sounds more in line with your previous products. As far as the idea for it goes, I'm all for it. The longer this thread runs, the happier I am that I started it.

[Lord Liaden]

Unfortunately, The Dragons Gate, SACoH 1.5 and other more recent releases have sold far less than that. Thus the hiaitus as we develop a new strategery for the SACoH and other lines.

Since you have declared yourself open to fan feedback, I hope you'll take the points I'm about to raise as constructive criticism, as they're intended.

IMO The Dragons Gate is a quality game product, with fascinating details of that section of a great fictional city. However, the fact that it did detail only a section with a particular style and flavor made it a bit of a niche product within a niche product (i.e. city sourcebooks), not conducive to great sales. Also, the personalities and power levels of the characters detailed in the book made it seem more like a Dark Champions supplement, whereas San Angelo overall is definitely four-color in tone. It kind of missed the SA fanbase target, again IMO.

SACoH 1.5 was of course pretty much the same material as the original, just with new non-HERO game stats. I'm sure you didn't expect to have HERO gamers who already own the book buy copies, but IME many gamers will buy a sourcebook just to mine for ideas, whether it's a system they play or not. With the original SA having been out for so long a lot of those gamers would have already seen it, cutting down the potential buyership even more.

OTOH a new San Angelo sourcebook updating and expanding on the city and its inhabitants, with stats for 5E HERO and other systems like Mutants And Masterminds, would have far broader appeal IMO.

[Lord Liaden]

That gives me an idea for an interesting supplement:

San Angelo Legends - a book of past heroes and villains (including deceased ones, ones from the Golden and Silver Ages, etc.). They would all be officially "out of circulation," yes, but they could easily be introduced into an existing campaign with any justifcation the GM wanted.

Thoughts?

Most definitely. Lots of people like the option of creating legacy characters, or prefer to run supers campaigns set in earlier eras, or with that Golden or Silver Age "tone" to them. IMHO putting all the earlier-era characters into one book would make it more appealing to people who don't want "just" a Golden or Silver Age supplement.

I would suggest not leaving it as just a character collection, though. I recommend including notes as to what was happening in San Angelo during each "age," including political and social developments, major events in the timeline, etc. The unique focus of SA has always been the life of the normal inhabitants, and their perspective on the extraordinary beings in their midst. Making the earlier eras in San Angelo's history live and breathe should appeal to those who loved the modern-day sourcebook.

However, I would also suggest a World Of San Angelo sourcebook at some point. One of the wishes I hear expressed most often among SA fans is for more information about the Earth outside of the city, so that they could expand their characters' adventures into the wider world. If such a book could exploit the "normal perspective" that's so distinctive to SA - how the peoples of different regions view superbeings and how their presence has impacted those societies - that would help set it apart from other supers worldbooks such as Hero Games's own Champions Universe.

[RPMiller]

Your points are definitely valid LL, as always. I would point out however that SA is actually a city capable of being more than a four-color city. There is the Cathedral district that really has that Daredevil / Dark Champions tone to it after all. Also, the Dragon's Gate could be plopped into any existing city, or be a one shot adventure area in some other city than the campaign city. Just to toss a few other ideas out there.