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Thread: Ability: "Check Enemy" - does this writeup work?

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    Ability: "Check Enemy" - does this writeup work?

    Does this writeup do what I want it to?

    Feat: "Check Enemy"
    This character can counter some of an opponent’s moves. If the character has equal or higher SPD, it is possible to block all his opponent’s actions.

    3d6+1 Suppress SPD
    Area of Effect (Accurate; -0)
    Area of Effect (One Hex; +½)
    Instant (-½)
    No Range (-½)
    One Target at a Time (-½)
    One Use at a Time (-½)
    Standard Effect Rule (+0)

    Total Modifiers: (+½, -2)
    BP 17, AP 26, RP 9

    With this power, the character may drain 1 point of SPD from one target they can come to grips with. They may not use this power on more than one target at the same time, and a target may only have 10 points worth of SPD (i.e., 1 SPD) Suppressed at any one instance. The effect is not Continuous like a regular Suppress, and fades after the attack, so in order to use this, the attacker must essentially hold their phase to act just before the target acts, and in activating this power, neutralize the action by neutralizing the point of SPD the defender was using to act that phase.

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    Re: Ability: "Check Enemy" - does this writeup work?

    It seems to me the only thing that doesn't work about this is the Instant aspect. A Suppressed Power or Characteristic only stays Suppressed for as long as the Suppressor pays END (or otherwise keeps the Suppress up), so if it's changed from Continuous to Instant, it seems to me it'd have no effect at all-- even if the Power is used directly before the target would act, even on the same Phase, I'd think the Suppress would take effect and expire before it could do anything.

    IMO, a more foolproof way to do this would be with Uncontrolled, and only feed one Segment's worth of END into it.
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    Re: Ability: "Check Enemy" - does this writeup work?

    Do you want to Suppress every time you have an available action or only once a Turn?

    The power looks like you Supress 10pts of SPD (1 SPD) for a single action you have (from when you use it to when you turn it off on your next available phase.) If that's what you want I think you got it.

    If there's a better way to do this concept it isn't coming to me...

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    The SFX

    The benchmark SFX is supposed to be similar to person A confronting person B and blocking their every move.

    * For example, if person B wants to sidestep and move past, or back off and retreat, person A somehow blocks them such that they get neglibible movement in any direction.
    * If person B wants to initiate an attack, person A somehow interferes or neutralizes without necessarily resorting to superior skill. This could be an attempt to grapple with their weapon, for instance. Whether they succeed or not is irrelevant, so long as the attempt, at least for that phase, is neutralized.

    In order to match this SFX as closely as possible, it will only work if both A and B are ready to act, and A has initiative over B to frustrate B's action.
    B can get past this by being able to act more frequently than A. Suppose, for instance, that A has SPD 2 and B has SPD 3. B has therefore 1 phase of action more than A can block.
    Last edited by Grail Quest; Dec 24th, '05 at 08:07 AM.
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    Re: The SFX

    Quote Originally Posted by Grail Quest
    The benchmark SFX is supposed to be similar to person A confronting person B and blocking their every move.

    * For example, if person B wants to sidestep and move past, or back off and retreat, person A somehow blocks them such that they get neglibible movement in any direction.
    * If person B wants to initiate an attack, person A somehow interferes or neutralizes without necessarily resorting to superior skill. This could be an attempt to grapple with their weapon, for instance. Whether they succeed or not is irrelevant, so long as the attempt, at least for that phase, is neutralized.

    In order to match this SFX as closely as possible, it will only work if both A and B are ready to act, and A has initiative over B to frustrate B's action.
    B can get past this by being able to act more frequently than A. Suppose, for instance, that A has SPD 2 and B has SPD 3. B has therefore 1 phase of action more than A can block.
    I think you're overcomplicating this. There's no real reason to build this as Power. I would consider this type of action as covered under the rules for Block/Martial Block and Grab/Martial Grab.

    You're not going to prevent someone with more SPD and movement from disengaging. That's why he bought that SPD and movement in the first place. Of course, that works for the PCs if they're faster too.

    If you must do this with a Power, an extra 1 or 2 SPD bought Only to Block/Counter Opponent -1 seems a simpler solution.
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    Re: Ability: "Check Enemy" - does this writeup work?

    I was going to suggest what Treb said, beat me to it.

    This is just extra SPD to Block/Counter.

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    Re: Ability: "Check Enemy" - does this writeup work?

    I like the idea, but there are problems.

    First off there is the choice of base power: adjustment powers have adjustment defences, and it is going to be reasonably hard to explain why you can block a high DEX martial artist, but not some low level brick who happens to have bought 1 point of power defence.

    Second the speed change rules are just strange and probably won't really accomplish what you are after, although, if I were running it I'd be inclined to wave that objection in favour of the spirit of the power.

    Third the cynical amongst us might assume that there is a bit of a go at circumventing the damage shield construct here...

    Fourth, it would work against, say, desolidification and teleport, which doesn't make a lot of sense to me but YVMV.

    Fifthly, you really are making a very substantial advantage into a points saving with 'instant': if you just had a base SPD supress you could supress up to 19 points of SPD with that construct, which would allow you to reduce a character's SPD by 1 and take up quite a ot of END to maintain over a turn. What you want to do is reduce a target's speed by (up to) your own speed. Let's assume a moderate SPD 5: that SHOULD require 16 1/2 dice of supress, using standard effect, and cost 40 END per turn...

    I'm working my way round here, subtly, to saying 'Nice try, but....'
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    Re: Ability: "Check Enemy" - does this writeup work?

    Blocking doesn't prevent you walking away, or for that matter prevent you attacking unless the attack is targetted at the blocker,

    I'm thinking a specialised form of mental paralysis (entangle) might be a better bet....
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    Re: Ability: "Check Enemy" - does this writeup work?

    I suggest allowing the countering character to combined the Grab and Cover combat maneuvers. Or possible just Cover.
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    Re: The SFX

    Quote Originally Posted by Trebuchet
    You're not going to prevent someone with more SPD and movement from disengaging. That's why he bought that SPD and movement in the first place. Of course, that works for the PCs if they're faster too.
    By saying that, you've changed the intent of the power, and now you're no longer talking about the same thing.
    I want the character to be able to stop someone from disengaging, among other things. It's like a very broad range of actions / FX rolled into a single "manoeuvre".

    Quote Originally Posted by Nevenall
    I suggest allowing the countering character to combined the Grab and Cover combat maneuvers. Or possible just Cover.
    Grab imposes and limits the character to a certain SFX and mechanic that is not necessarily what the character is doing.

    Although, it is perhaps a generalized SPD decrease is a bit broader than I thought, as the character shouldn't be stopping teleport movement or mental powers... Maybe I'll look into a limited Entangle. Hmm...
    Last edited by Grail Quest; Dec 24th, '05 at 12:01 PM.
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    Re: The SFX

    Quote Originally Posted by Grail Quest
    By saying that, you've changed the intent of the power, and now you're no longer talking about the same thing.
    I want the character to be able to stop someone from disengaging, among other things. It's like a very broad range of actions / FX rolled into a single "manoeuvre".
    The Hero system doesn't allow absolutes. NO possible Power construct is going to allow you to both prevent any character from moving, attacking, and/or retreating. Even if it were, no sensible GM would permit it. (How would you, as a player, react to being told "Your character can't get past this villain. No, you can't retreat or circle around him either. That's right; you're screwed." If you're the GM, be prepared for an angry player.) It would be terribly unbalancing in combat.

    The closest you're going to get is some kind of mental paralysis/entangle. You'll have to build it with Area Effect, Personal Immunity, Continuous, and Sticky so other characters can't just zip by the first "flypapered" character; and of course not only will it not work (by your own definition) on anyone with a higher SPD but any character with enough EGO or STR, depending on the build, will zip right through it. (If the possessing character is of average SPD, "Not vs. characters with higher SPD might be worth a Limitation.) Based on your described sfx I can't see how it will stop teleporters either.
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    Re: Ability: "Check Enemy" - does this writeup work?

    Has no one pointed out that he's only Suppressing 10 Active Points worth of SPD? That doesn't mean poof, he loses his next action -- it means his SPD is reduced by 1. If you want to suppress all of his actions for as long as you're engaged with him, you'll need to Suppress all of his SPD (which, given a heroic campaign, may not be all that difficult, only costly). 14d6 Standard Effect will always do it, barring Power Defense. 15d6 will do it through 5 Power Defense but no more (probably reasonable for most characters with a "just in case" 5 points of Power Defense).
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    Re: Ability: "Check Enemy" - does this writeup work?

    My first instinct is to go with the previously mentioned limited form of Entangle. Make it disappear after one phase, or something like that.

    Another highly questionable option occured to me. It sounds like (if I understand correctly) what you really want is an instant CON-Stun effect. What about a huge NND with the limitation 'Does no actual stun, only to achieve CON-Stun effect'? Couple it with a CON suppress or drain for extra effectiveness.

    A more realistic approach, it seems to me, is simply Mind Control with a limited command.
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    Re: Ability: "Check Enemy" - does this writeup work?

    Antoher idea: Mind Control; Set Effect: "Stand And Fight!" might be an interesting option.

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    Re: Ability: "Check Enemy" - does this writeup work?

    Quote Originally Posted by Log
    My first instinct is to go with the previously mentioned limited form of Entangle. Make it disappear after one phase, or something like that.

    Another highly questionable option occured to me. It sounds like (if I understand correctly) what you really want is an instant CON-Stun effect. What about a huge NND with the limitation 'Does no actual stun, only to achieve CON-Stun effect'? Couple it with a CON suppress or drain for extra effectiveness.

    A more realistic approach, it seems to me, is simply Mind Control with a limited command.
    It wouldn't have to be a "huge" NND. You just have to make sure that:

    1) You go before them (higher DEX or Lightning Reflexes) and you go in at least as many phases as they do.

    2) Hit them with a good-sized Supress and Supress their CON down to around, oh, 2. You should probably make it AoE: 1 Hex Accurate so you're only targeting a DCV of 3.

    3) Hit them with a Triggered 1d6 NND Set Effect (3 points Stun). (You don't want to use Linked because if two Powers go off together, and one of them reduces the defense against the other, the "other" gets applied first. With a Trigger, you can set it to go off after the Supress has done its dirty work.)

    4) They're CON Stunned and must spend their next action to Recover from Being Stunned. Drop the Supress so their CON instantly snaps back to normal.

    5) Though their CON is back to normal, that doesn't make them "un-CON-stunned", since that happened while their CON was low.

    6) Wash, rinse, repeat as necessary; if you have a higher Speed than they do, use the phases of yours in which you're not keeping them Stunned to attack them with a damaging effect.

    You can salt the Supress/NND with whatever Limitations seem appropriate to you (like Gestures, for example [blocking the enemy's blows, getting in front of them if they're trying to break off, etc.] or Requires a DEX Check could well be appropriate).
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