DC's Best Martial Artist

[Enforcer84]

Lady Shiva is running away with it.

[Bloodstone]

Now now. That's our little secret!


after all only the two of us bought that comic right?

Nope. I too bought that comic.

Love She Hulk, love Thing, love GLA/GLX!

I'm a big fan of Slott's work.

[gewing]

BTW, other meta feats for Batgirl involve moving in literal bullet time -- and I don't mean just 'dodging bullets' (every street-leveller from Spider-Man on down to Hawkingbird can do a simple acrobatic dodge), I mean explicit Matrix-time events of standing there, watching the bullets approach her face in slow motion, and then stepping aside while they're still hanging there in mid-air.

She's done that at least three times under two separate writers.

(Whether or not Shiva can do this is unknown -- Shiva has never faced opponents with guns above the mook level, as she specializes in picking fights with martial artists. And mooks, she can wipe out before they even get a chance to shoot. However, given that they are templated off each other... Ra's was attempting to recreate Lady Shiva 2.0 with Cassandra, only better... and their matching each other in all other respects, I'd speculate that she could.)

As with Val "Karate Kid" Armorr -- if nowhere on his level -- Cassandra operates at blatantly superhuman levels via sheer ubermartialartsskillz. Such is possible in the DCU, Val himself being the most notable case.

I forgot one of my favorite characters from when I was a kid! KK was awesome.

About the bullet time:

The founder of Aikido was said to be able to dodge bullets, they would point a gun at him, he would "see a beam of light" where the bullet would be and avoid it.

He is also said to have hit a hole in one the first time he picked up a golf club.

[OddHat]

The founder of Aikido was said to be able to dodge bullets, they would point a gun at him, he would "see a beam of light" where the bullet would be and avoid it.

How often was that tested by someone actually trying to kill him?

My guess: Not often.

However, a very old Vaudeville trick was grabbing a bullet out of the air. Early on it was done with (iirc) very low power guns. These days magicians go the sleight of hand route.

He is also said to have hit a hole in one the first time he picked up a golf club.

My brother-in-law lies about his golf game too.

[gewing]

All I ask is that you try.

I've never read that much DC. I remember Lady Shiva beating on and mocking the Question. That was the first time I ever saw her.

I've read a few more recent comics, but don't even know for sure who a lot of the people are.

[gewing]

But that's cool That's what I am going for. No one can know all of these guys...No really, know one knows...but go with who you feel is best and let's see from there!

I think I just remember a comic with Richard Dragon in it that I read.

He was in a park or something, and engaged in a fight with "The Stylist" The stylist had a pair of sai, Dragon? broke a slat off a park bench and used it as a bo staff.

He was winning, when Batman broke up the fight...

[gewing]

How often was that tested by someone actually trying to kill him?

My guess: Not often.

However, a very old Vaudeville trick was grabbing a bullet out of the air. Early on it was done with (iirc) very low power guns. These days magicians go the sleight of hand route.



My brother-in-law lies about his golf game too.

all possible, just relaying stories.

[OddHat]

all possible, just relaying stories.

Understood.

I like a good martial arts story; I'm just in skeptic mode at the moment.

[proditor]

1. Richard Dragon
2. Lady Shiva, Batgirl II
3. Bronze Tiger, Batman, Conner Hawke, Wildcat
4. Black Canary, Nightwing,
5. Mr Terrific II
6. Cheshire, Manhunter
7. Arsenal, Huntress
8. Catman
9. Robin
10. Firebird

Using your list, but making a change or two. Nice to see some props for Mister Terrific btw.

[Chuckg]

The founder of Aikido was said to be able to dodge bullets, they would point a gun at him, he would "see a beam of light" where the bullet would be and avoid it.

I dunno about this working in the real world, but this is quite common in comics -- how the normal street-leveller acrobatic dodge works is, they figure out where the guy is pointing it, then they jink just as he pulls the trigger, leaving the guy firing at where they used to be.

But the thing is, they're not moving faster than the *bullet*, they're just beating out the reaction time of the *shooter*.

Cassandra? She can do that, of course, but sometimes she does this kind of thing instead.

From BATGIRL #13:

(Yes, the girl is actually zig-zagging in and out of the paths of bullets that are already in the air and coming at her. For *fun*. While *grinning*. It's quite clear, given that the artist is drawing it in stop-motion, that the bullets are already on their way before she starts moving.)

Then in the last page, she leaps forward and punches out the four guys who are shooting at her. Notice that she's doing it all inside the interval of one eyeblink, as witness the last guy to go down.)

Metahuman speed? I'll believe it.

[OddHat]

I dunno about this working in the real world, but this is quite common in comics -- how the normal street-leveller acrobatic dodge works is, they figure out where the guy is pointing it, then they jink just as he pulls the trigger, leaving the guy firing at where they used to be.

But the thing is, they're not moving faster than the *bullet*, they're just beating out the reaction time of the *shooter*.

Cassandra? She can do that, of course, but sometimes she does this kind of thing instead.

From BATGIRL #13:

(Yes, the girl is actually zig-zagging in and out of the paths of bullets that are already in the air and coming at her. For *fun*. While *grinning*. It's quite clear, given that the artist is drawing it in stop-motion, that the bullets are already on their way before she starts moving.)

Then in the last page, she leaps forward and punches out the four guys who are shooting at her. Notice that she's doing it all inside the interval of one eyeblink, as witness the last guy to go down.)

Metahuman speed? I'll believe it.

Yup, that's metahuman.

I really dislike that semi-manga art style.

[Powerhouse]

(Yes, the girl is actually zig-zagging in and out of the paths of bullets that are already in the air and coming at her. For *fun*. While *grinning*. It's quite clear, given that the artist is drawing it in stop-motion, that the bullets are already on their way before she starts moving.)

Just a slight note is that she is clearly moving before the shots start to go off (albeit with perhaps an instant before the hammers strike the bullet). I suppose you could infer that she's able to see where each shooter is aiming and who is pulling the trigger first so that she knows where and when the bullets will be. That noted, yes she is clearly moving at superhuman speed to be able to weave one way, then another, and then another way while the bullets are on their way. Assuming that the bullets are going at 300 meters/second (the speed of sound is 331 m/s and I think that bullets are faster than sound- let's make it 300 m/s for ease) and those guys are at 10 meters away, at MOST, she has 1/30 of a second to move in those directions. Humanly impossible.

Giving her some more help, put a delay in the bullets, say that they shooters don't fire all at once: you see only one bullet on panel at the time so the time frame becomes:
0: one bullet goes off
1/30: first bullet hits the wall behind Cassandra; second bullet goes off
2/30: second bullet hits the wall behind Cassandra; third bullet goes off
3/30: third bullet hits the wall behind Cassandra; fourth bullet goes off
4/30: fourth bullet hits the wall behind Cassandra

Now she has 1/30 of a second to jink one way or another.... still superhuman. Also, if she is only 5 meters away, the window is now 1/60 of a second which seems more likely now.

She's ready to race the Flash.

[Chuckg]

Hey, I freely admit that it's logically absurd and physically impossible. (Of course, this being comics, *lots* of things are logically absurd and physically impossible.)

If it only happened the one time, I'd have been willing to write it off to a writer brain cramp and make it like it didn't happen. If the artwork were more ambiguous, I could have accepted an interpretation of 'she didn't actually move faster than the bullets, she just jinked around so fast that they shot wild'.

OTOH, the artist went *way* out of his way to make it *absolutely* plain that ye majorly freaky stuff was in progress yo. Furthermore, it's happened more than once in the comic.

And last, but definitely not least, she's not the only person in the DCU who can abuse martial arts to get temporary Flash-like superspeed. Post-Reboot Val Armorr's done the same, when he Martial Threw a charging Mon-El... a Mon-El who was charging at a high fraction of lightspeed.

So, the general physical laws of the DCU apparently allow for very short-term(*) bursts of Flash-like superspeed from super-duper martial artists... even as ridiculous as that sounds.

Is there a 'shrug' emoticon in here somewhere?




(*) A step or two at a time, no more.

[tomd1969]

Here's my list:

1. Richard Dragon
2. Shiva
3. Cassandra Cain
4. Connor Hawke
5. Batman
6. Nightwing
7. Black Canary (moved up from #10 recently due to training by Shiva)
8. Cain (Batgirl's father)
9. Bronze Tiger
10. Robin

That was fun! Let's do it again!

[Twilight]

Here's my list:

1. Richard Dragon
2. Shiva
3. Cassandra Cain
4. Connor Hawke
5. Batman
6. Nightwing
7. Black Canary (moved up from #10 recently due to training by Shiva)
8. Cain (Batgirl's father)
9. Bronze Tiger
10. Robin

That was fun! Let's do it again!

How is the guy who defeated Batman in one shot, on a lower level of martial arts then Batman himself?

One kick to the gut from Bronze Tiger and Batman crumples. No extenuating circumstances involved, no distractions. Batman saw Bronze Tiger [at the time brainwashed to work for the League of Assassins] and was ready to fight him. He'd even taken a defensive position BUT WAS UNABLE TO BLOCK THE KICK.

The story is still part of the Post Crisis universe people!