Fantasy Hero Setting Conversions?

[sbarron]

Looking over the threads here, it's pretty clear that many people on this board like converting the fantasy settings of other game system into HERO. Which I think makes a lot of sense, as the HERO "system" works so well for me, too. Off the top of my head, I can think of Runequest, Forgotten Realms and Iron Kingdoms to HERO conversions being discussed. I'm sure there are dozens more.

But I wonder if the reverse is ever true? Do gamers that use other systems ever convert HERO settings into "their" game of choice?

I mostly spend time on the HERO boards, occasionally stopping in at RPG.net. In my limited experience, people do not convert HERO settings into another game system. They do the reverse, if they like HERO, or they just play in the setting and rules the like.

So, assuming this is true (please tell me if you think its not) do you think this is because the HERO settings aren't that inspiring, just the nature of the HERO system, or something else?

[sbarron]

To add a little to this discussion, I'll put a brief take on what I think of the published HERO fantasy settings...

HERO Fantasy Settings
Western Shores - I really liked "Western Shores." It was my first exposure to Fantasy HERO and I was young and easy to please. Generic enough that people wouldn't bother convert from another system. Plus, very little support.

Broekn Kingdoms - I thought the "Broken Kingdoms" setting was absolutely amazing. It really opened my eyes to what you can do with HERO. Had potential for conversions, but the lack of support (just one e-book) made it an unlikely choice for a system conversion.

Turakian Age - I have never played in the Turakian Age, though I have it, the Grimoires, and MMM. I like the setting well enough. It's HERO's take on high fantasy. But I don't know that it distinguishes itself from other standard high fantasy settings in any way that would cause someone to convert it to their game system of choice.

Valdorian Age - I have the "Valdorian Age," but I have not played in it, and have only skimmed over the magic section. As a result, I won't say anything more about it, other than its clearly HERO's take swords and sorcery.

These are the only published FH settings I am aware of. I'd be excited to learn of more if they're out there...

[Curufea]

It's difficult - most systems I can think of are conversion-unfriendly. It's hard to impossible to make new rules or convert things to them. At least to do it and keep it balanced in anyway.
The first step is to reverse engineer the system and work out how the designers came up with their original rules, then work out some methods or formulas to get it close.
Most fan-made new items for other systems are simply made up or guestimated - so it's potluck whether they're playable.

[Erkenfresh]

Maybe everyone thinks that HERO is superior! MUahhaha!

[Curufea]

Well, yes - if you are a poster on a message board for the Hero System, it is a safe bet that you prefer to use the Hero System.

I'm just pointing out that as a generic point based system - it is naturally better at conversions and simulations of other systems.

It is very difficult to simulate things in systems that are specifically created for a certain genre. Especially if those systems are compilations of special cases or genre-specific special rules.

[Old Man]

This is the fundamental problem with non-Champions Hero games--there are no popular established settings. So far the number of 'official' published settings for FH is five--the four you list plus Shadow World v1 (whose support for FH was sporadic at best). Of those only two existed prior to 2002, while the new ones are unsupported with published adventures, expansions, etc.

In contrast, take any TSR/WOTC published setting for AD&D and look at the sheer quantity of high-quality material published for it. Dark Sun, Ravenloft, Greyhawk, Al-Qadim, Forgotten Realms, Planescape, Eberron, I'm sure I've missed some but is there any such setting that hasn't come with two dozen sourcebooks and adventures? With professional art and layout? Whereas state of the art for FH is Turakian Age, one book that looks like a Word document with Keith's awesome maps attached.

(edit) I did forget Spelljammer, at least.

[tkdguy]

Maybe everyone thinks that HERO is superior! MUahhaha!

We don't think HERO is superior; we KNOW it is!

[sbarron]

So far the number of 'official' published settings for FH is five--the four you list plus Shadow World v1 (whose support for FH was sporadic at best).

Ah yes, Shadow World. I remember seeing mention of Shadow World in the 2nd Ed. Fanatsy Hero, but never anything else. I'll have to look into it a bit more.

Unfortunately, I don't think HERO can afford to put a lot of money into any one setting the way D&D did. HERO lives too close to the margin to risk publishing a big loser. I'm just guessing here, but I bet D&D lost money on most of the settings you listed. They just made up the difference with the big sellers (e.g., Forgotten Realms). They can afford to throw a lot of stuff at the wall and see what sticks. HERO doesn't have that luxury.

But I totally agree that I'd like to see HERO have a signature Fantasy setting
that they could really support (its kind of the point of this thread). I suspect that HERO would like that too. But to do it I think the setting would be have to good/interesting/kewl enough that people would want to convert the setting into their preferred system, and so far we don't have that.

[John Desmarais]

Ah yes, Shadow World. I remember seeing mention of Shadow World in the 2nd Ed. Fanatsy Hero, but never anything else. I'll have to look into it a bit more.

Shadow World was interesting and well thought out but, as the other old man said, it's Fantasy Hero support had issues. To my mind the biggest issue was magic. Magic was REALLY important to the setting and it was very much Rolemaster magic.

But I totally agree that I'd like to see HERO have a signature Fantasy setting that they could really support (its kind of the point of this thread). I suspect that HERO would like that too. But to do it I think the setting would be have to good/interesting/kewl enough that people would want to convert the setting into their preferred system, and so far we don't have that.

Turakian Age is the most likely candidate for this. It has all of the elements that typical fantasy gamers are looking for. I'd love to see a few more Turakian setting support products released (like maybe some expanded details of some of the countries and/or cities). One possible method: If Digital Hero were a printed magazine sold in game stores it could be a good way to publish addition Turakian Age material in a way that might attract new buyers (the only reason I kept buying Dragon for as long as I did was the Forgotten Realms articles). Of course, we've heard no plans to change the way Digital Hero is published, so this isn't likely (not that I'd object to more Turakian Age stuff showing up in the current ebook format of DA as well).

[Lord Liaden]

This is the fundamental problem with non-Champions Hero games--there are no popular established settings. So far the number of 'official' published settings for FH is five--the four you list plus Shadow World v1 (whose support for FH was sporadic at best). Of those only two existed prior to 2002, while the new ones are unsupported with published adventures, expansions, etc.

Well, prior to 2002 there were several other usable quality settings published, the "Campaign Classics" series from ICE: Robin Hood, Pirates, Mythic Greece, Mythic Egypt and Vikings. The last three would certainly count as fantasy, having the main elements - archaic society and technology, magic, and supernatural beings. Of course they weren't supported further aside from one or two articles in Adventurers Club.

I do agree that Turakian Age would be likeliest Hero Games "signature" fantasy setting, since it fits well within the parameters of mainstream (i.e. D&D-esque) fantasy RPGs. To be fair, though, TA already has a moderate amount of support, considering that almost all the other books in the Fantasy HERO line are written to be compatible with it: two volumes of spells, a "monster" compendium, and a collection of adventures.

What might be helpful would be a series of Hero Plus Adventures for the Turakian Age. Perhaps after Steven S. gets off his current pulp kick, he'll be inspired to whip off a few for TA.

[Old Man]

I do agree that Turakian Age would be likeliest Hero Games "signature" fantasy setting, since it fits well within the parameters of mainstream (i.e. D&D-esque) fantasy RPGs. To be fair, though, TA already has a moderate amount of support, considering that almost all the other books in the Fantasy HERO line are written to be compatible with it: two volumes of spells, a "monster" compendium, and a collection of adventures.

TA is pretty good, but it's hopelessly underillustrated, causing the unconscious mind to think 'boring' before even a word is read. And while the other books are written to be compatible with it, the link isn't clear on the cover.

Basically the realization that has dawned on me after years of wondering why FH doesn't do better is that the setting is more important than the system. The Hero system, though wonderful, is just a bunch of game mechanics. You can take that as far as printing a couple of rulebooks, and you're done.

A good setting, by contrast, is an incredibly valuable piece of intellectual property that can support the publication of an almost limitless number of sourcebooks, as well as extracurriculars like novels and video games. Consider the Warhammer 40K setting. No one plays that game for the system. It's essentially a boardgame. Why do people get so wrapped up in WH40K, so passionate about it, that they're willing to spend hundreds or even thousands of dollars on it? It's the setting, stupid!

What might be helpful would be a series of Hero Plus Adventures for the Turakian Age. Perhaps after Steven S. gets off his current pulp kick, he'll be inspired to whip off a few for TA.

That would so totally rock.

[TheQuestionMan]

To add a little to this discussion, I'll put a brief take on what I think of the published HERO fantasy settings...

HERO Fantasy Settings
Broken Kingdoms - I thought the "Broken Kingdoms" setting was absolutely amazing. It really opened my eyes to what you can do with HERO. Had potential for conversions, but the lack of support (just one e-book) made it an unlikely choice for a system conversion.

Damn it now I am curious. Tell me about it. I totally missed out on that one.

As to Champions/Hero Conversions to Other RPGs just reverse the Conversions Process. I understand DOJs reluctance to go into Licencing better now too.
http://herogame.dans.cust.servlets.n...ad.php?t=41358

It is more of a "WHAT IF" I had the money. I would create my own company and Licence the Hero System. No Risks and DOJ gets some royalties.

Cheers

QM

[Nightshade]

I've actually tried to do that with my home-grown world. I designed it using HERO as the system. However, prior to 5th edition, I couldn't get any players. So, I tried to convert it to 3rd ed. D&D. Let's just say it wasn't a positive experience.

However, I did decide to do my fantasy world as if I were going to publish it. So, my main world-book is the World of Spheryl, which lists all of the pertanent information on the setting. Then, I have Mythic Legacy, which is a spell-book. Bloodlines details vampires, Savage Grace lycanthropes, Kingdoms of Magic fae, and Nature's Wrath druids (who need their own sourcebook for my world).

The primary reason for doing it this way is the same for any company: I can't find anything if I put it all in one book, or I have to lower the detail to the point that it isn't good enough for what I want it to be.

Nightshade