The 2007 Release Schedule

[Jeff T.]

I believe there is at least one other game on the subject. I remember seeing something about it on rpg.net one day.

There is a really cool dice and card game called Champions of the Galaxy (not sure if posting a link to another gaming company is appropriate) by Filsinger Games.

The game is so good it has lasted continually, and consistently grown in popularity, for 20 years now. Centering around superheroic and futuristic pro wrestling, it could easily be converted into rpg form with the help of the HERO system.

[Susano]

There are always folks who get their feathers ruffled by negative opinions, IMO negative criticism that amounts to 'this product is a waste of my money' needs to be heard just as much as "Wow, I think Lucha Libre (which I love to watch just have no interest in a whole RPG resource book about the subject) is cool. Great idea, HERO!".

You have nothing to apologize for and it is VERY unfortunate that you've been made to feel as if you had to, sir.

Yes. but I think people can be politer about it. I mean, would you walk up to Darren personally and say "LLH is such a waste! I can't believe you bothered to write it! Right something good instead!"? If not, then don't write your board posts like that. Saying "I have no interest in this product" or "This product is not for me" tells the same information and doesn't sound rude.

[Jeff T.]

Yes. but I think people can be politer about it. I mean, would you walk up to Darren personally and say "LLH is such a waste! I can't believe you bothered to write it! Right something good instead!"? If not, then don't write your board posts like that. Saying "I have no interest in this product" or "This product is not for me" tells the same information and doesn't sound rude.

Actually, I can imagine myself saying exactly what Wanderer said to someone right there in the HERO booth at a convention.

I think 'some people' can be impolite about these things...quite obviously. However, having reread Wanderer's entire post, I don't believe that to be the case with him in the slightest. His last line clearly indicated disappointment and frustration with the product and the rest of his post was mostly positive.

I certainly don't advocate posts that simply contain, "Lucha Libre Sucks!", or some such.

I don't want to turn the release schedule into the "HERO apologists" thread nor do I want to debate at what microscopic point respectful criticism suddenly becomes 'crapping' on a product. Respectful negative criticism or a simple 'That product would be a waste of my money' has to be allowed and, for that matter, encouraged.

I'll shut up now.

[Wanderer]

Yes. but I think people can be politer about it. I mean, would you walk up to Darren personally and say "LLH is such a waste! I can't believe you bothered to write it! Right something good instead!"? If not, then don't write your board posts like that. Saying "I have no interest in this product" or "This product is not for me" tells the same information and doesn't sound rude.

And saying "I have no interest in this book and think it would be a waste of money not only for me, but for Hero Games as well, and since HG has been crying over the fan shoulder of mine for more financial support just last year, I feel entitled in telling them that IMO this would be a BAD idea" in brusque but honest terms ?

I'm honestly persuaded that Darren can write a truly excellent book about the subject; after all, he did an excellent work about two of my preferred Champions books ever, Galactic Champions and Hidden Lands, but I'm equally honestly persuaded and entitled to tell that IMO the subject stinks as the focus of a whole genre RPG sourcebook and will be a bomb. Giving unwelcome but frank advice about unwise choices is an act of friendship and my comment was meant in that sense.

[hancock.tom]

Regardless of personal opinions on lucha libre, this book probably has the most cross-game system appeal of anything HERO has ever done. While you may not know much about Lucha Libre, it has had a lot of influence on mainstream american professional wrestling over the last 10-15 years, and wrestling fans in this country do know what it is.

The wrestling fan/roleplayer subgroup will probably pick up this lucha libre book, if nothing else just to try to use the ideas with their system of choice. I recall my FLGS selling quite a few copies of the aberrant wrasslin supplement just because rpg'er wrestling fans thought that any rpg book with Ric Flair in it was worth more than the price of admission.

I suspect the Lucha HERO book will get some of those buyers, which will probably (hopefully?) make up for the champions people who don't want to buy it.

Like others have said, I'm glad to see HERO branch out a little bit. These are the sorts of books that get people saying "Hero? Whats that like?" and thats definitely a good thing.

[GamePhil]

And saying "I have no interest in this book and think it would be a waste of money not only for me, but for Hero Games as well, and since HG has been crying over the fan shoulder of mine for more financial support just last year, I feel entitled in telling them that IMO this would be a BAD idea" in brusque but honest terms ?

"Is this a joke?!" is not respectful criticism. If you had said what you have above instead, then you would have received no criticism on the tone.

As for whether it is a mistake: Just because you, as someone who has no interest in the subject and, therefore, likely hangs out with people who also don't (which is only natural), don't assume that the Hero crew doesn't have better information on how well this will sell. It is, after all, clearly the genre that aspects of Buffy: tVS was based on. I mean, seriously, vampires coming back and immediately knowing martial arts? Straight out of those movies, where the monsters come back as wrestlers.

As for HG crying over the fan shoulder, if you are referring to the request to buy from them if you have no good alternative, that is hardly doing that. They still support good stores, they just aren't going to continue to send people to bad ones. That statement is also, by the way, less than respectful criticism.

[Wanderer]

Regardless of personal opinions on lucha libre, this book probably has the most cross-game system appeal of anything HERO has ever done. While you may not know much about Lucha Libre, it has had a lot of influence on mainstream american professional wrestling over the last 10-15 years, and wrestling fans in this country do know what it is.

Dude, I would have serious doubts about the viability of a whole Hero genre book about wrestling at all, much less a cultural subset of it. Honestly, I hope I'm mistaken. But in my knowledge the only "cultural" subgenre that ever allowed a game line to float are Hong Kong action/wuxia and anime. And I seriously doubt that lucha libre has the same widespread appeal of wuxia and anime. There is not a RPG pal of my circle that has not a definite opinion of anime and wuxia, while pretty much all of them would "Lucha Libre ?? WTF ??".

If the American fans of professional wrestling subset of the Hero RPG market can float this book by themselves, good for them and for HG

The wrestling fan/roleplayer subgroup will probably pick up this lucha libre book, if nothing else just to try to use the ideas with their system of choice. I recall my FLGS selling quite a few copies of the aberrant wrasslin supplement just because rpg'er wrestling fans thought that any rpg book with Ric Flair in it was worth more than the price of admission.

Very sadly, the Aberrant line sank (and I will ever mourn for it, since there never was nor is much like to ever be again, a more original and interesting *people with superpowers* RPG setting, breaking the stale four-color cliches), and I seriously doubt that XWF was a significant contribution to its survival, for all its tongue-in-cheek appeal. Moreover, WXF was a minimum-size leaflet softcover. IIUC, here we are talking about something comparable to Galactic Champions or Teen Champions at least, if not Pulp or Ninja Hero.

I suspect the Lucha HERO book will get some of those buyers, which will probably (hopefully?) make up for the champions people who don't want to buy it.

I sincerely hope you're right. Allow me a dose of deep skepticism

Like others have said, I'm glad to see HERO branch out a little bit. These are the sorts of books that get people saying "Hero? Whats that like?" and thats definitely a good thing.

Hmm, yes, that's what they said about Werewolf: Wild West, and Wraith: the Great War, too, and we all know how those sublines rocked the market and revolutionized the genre.

[Wanderer]

As for whether it is a mistake: Just because you, as someone who has no interest in the subject and, therefore, likely hangs out with people who also don't (which is only natural), don't assume that the Hero crew doesn't have better information on how well this will sell. It is, after all, clearly the genre that aspects of Buffy: tVS was based on. I mean, seriously, vampires coming back and immediately knowing martial arts? Straight out of those movies, where the monsters come back as wrestlers.

Buffy has been a world-wide success for years and is universally known and generally liked among the "geek" comics/RPG/SF/fantasy/anime fanbase. Back then, I'd not have had any doubt whatsoever that a Buffy RPG would have huge potential for success. I seriously doubt the two phenomena are comparable.

As for HG crying over the fan shoulder, if you are referring to the request to buy from them if you have no good alternative, that is hardly doing that. They still support good stores, they just aren't going to continue to send people to bad ones. That statement is also, by the way, less than respectful criticism.

"The RPG market is bad. Please buy directly from us if you don't have a better alternative". With a bit of sarcastic hyperbole, that's how I perceived the request. While I'm not suggesting that HG is undercutting FGLS, it is a well-known fact that the RPG market is not very good, most RPG houses, HG included, are positioning themselves to push for direct sell, and direct sell allows more *immediate profits*. The current RPG market being what it is, I have serious doubts that it is a wise move to branch out to cover a genre that is fairly unknown outside of American wrestling fans.

Of course, I might be wholly mistaken, and I hope to be. I wish nothing but success for HG, even if I'm honestly annoyed to see a publishing schedule slot to go "wasted" when they could instead do Villainy Amok II, Iron Age Champions, Ultimate Base, or Champions of the Milky Way.

As for the Hero crew knowing far better than this humble fan how stuff will work, well I honestly hope and expect it to. But the cynic veteran witness of the RPG genre in me cannot but reminiscence that it would be far from the first time that books bomb because publishers were honestly deluded by their own inner fan.

[GamePhil]

Buffy has been a world-wide success for years and is universally known and generally liked among the "geek" comics/RPG/SF/fantasy/anime fanbase. Back then, I'd not have had any doubt whatsoever that a Buffy RPG would have huge potential for success. I seriously doubt the two phenomena are comparable.

First of all, I was saying that the Lucha concept was clearly an inspiration for Joss in creating Buffy, not that it was a comparable phenomena. Just look at the Lucha episode of Angel, mentioned earlier, for further proof that the creators have a great love for it. And if I had been saying that they were comparable, I'd still have been correct. It is actually wildly popular, far more so than you give it credit for.

"The RPG market is bad. Please buy directly from us if you don't have a better alternative". With a bit of sarcastic hyperbole, that's how I perceived the request.

Essentially correct, and still hardly crying on our shoulders. Much of the problem with the market is: the distribution system sucks. Many of the stores suck. Hero essentially saying that, if you have a good store, great, buy from there. If you don't, buy direct, and give them that extra little bit rather than contributing it to the suckage.

Of course, I might be wholly mistaken, and I hope to be. I wish nothing but success for HG, even if I'm honestly annoyed to see a publishing schedule slot to go "wasted" when they could instead do Villainy Amok II, Iron Age Champions, Ultimate Base, or Champions of the Milky Way.

I seriously think you are wholly mistaken, but we'll see. I assume the quotes on "wasted" mean that it is so from your point of view rather than a business one. Let me put that to rest: If it works, the company makes money, keeping them open, meaning you are more likely to get what you want, so it is in your best interests. If it doesn't, it still means that Darren and others associated with the project get to do this thing that will be great fun for them, and therefore approach other projects with still greater enthusiasm than they have already shown, so again is in your interest. Win for you either way.

As for the Hero crew knowing far better than this humble fan how stuff will work, well I honestly hope and expect it to. But the cynic veteran witness of the RPG genre in me cannot but reminiscence that it would be far from the first time that books bomb because publishers were honestly deluded by their own inner fan.

Could be, could be. But I've seen enough enthusiasm for the genre in my circles that I doubt it.

In any event, no reason to go on and on about (too late!) one kneejerk reaction in what was, as has been pointed out, an overall positive post.

[Koshka]

Villains, Vandals, And Vermin: Not currently running a modern day campaign, but a probably buy anyway. If nothing else, it'll give me more villains to choose from for con games.

Pulp Resource Guide: Definite buy.

Enchanted Items: Not currently running fantasy. Might buy, would need to wait and see.

The Ultimate Energy Projector: Definite buy.

Champions Of The North: Probably buy, same reason as VVV.

Danger Zones: This could be interesting (assuming current events don't make the book out of date before it ships). Don't know if I'll buy or not, since most of my DC gaming has been urban vigilantes, but will take a good look at it.

Aarn: City Of Adventure: Despite not running fantasy, I'll probably buy this one. I can read setting books for fun, and this could be a blast.

Post-Apocalyptic Hero: Not a favorite genre of mine, I'll have to see.

Lucha Libre Hero: Well, I'll have to buy one copy as a present for a wrestling-fan friend of mine no matter what. If I buy through the online store, what are the odds of getting Darren and Jason to autograph it before it's shipped?

Lands Of Mystery: I have been waiting for this one since GenCon 2002, when I got Aaron to autograph my brand new copy of 5th edition Champions and my original copy of LOM. The rest of you get in line, I'm first!

Crews, Cops, And Cabals: Could be interesting, a probable buy.

Scourges Of The Galaxy: Will probably buy (con game use most likely). How soon I buy will depend on whether it's tied into one of the settings or more universal.

Golden Age Hero will probably out late Fall 2007.

And I'll be waiting in line for it.

[Wanderer]

It is actually wildly popular, far more so than you give it credit for. Could be, could be. But I've seen enough enthusiasm for the genre in my circles that I doubt it.

Who knows, I might be working from a wholly biased perspective. But I'm a regular presence to the most important game conventions of my country, and you couldn't but trip on the sheer amount of comic-, anime-, wuxia-, TV SF/Fantasy-related stuff, while you would be *extremely* pressed to find anything remotely related to this luche libre stuff you so enthusiastically describe (and believe me, I do check the stands of cult/b-movie stuff thoroughly). My worries about the appeal of such a book came from this perspective. Maybe it's a mainly American fad (in the good sense), so far, and it has yet to spread this side of the pond.

Overall, I've a very positive feeling from 2007 (and 2006) schedule: I'm especially warm and fuzzy that my ardent lobbying for Ultimate Energy Projector went to an happy end. Villains, Vandals and Vermin, Champions of the North, Crews, Cops, And Cabals will help feed my unquenchable appetite for Champions stuff, and Danger Zones & Post-Apocalyptic Hero (maybe Enchanted Items, too) will likely easy to put to the same use. I'm only a bit sad that Golden Age Champions will take so long, because it means Bronze and Iron Age (especially!) will take who knows so many years :frown:

[kave99]

Villains, Vandals, And Vermin - yes
Pulp Resource Guide - doubtful
Enchanted Items -doubtful
The Ultimate Energy Projector - yes!
Champions Of The North - yes!!! but i hope it not such a ripoff of Alpha Flight[hope Scott rereads Captain Canuck]
Danger Zones - sounds useful
Aarn: City Of Adventure - pass on this one
Post-Apocalyptic Hero - OK I'm a sucker for post-Holocaust games
Lucha Libre Hero - might work
Lands Of Mystery - yes!!!!
Crews, Cops, And Cabals -yes!!!!!!
Scourges Of The Galaxy -no
Golden Age Hero - yes!!!!
Fiction collection - will just have to see

[Jeff T.]

Who knows, I might be working from a wholly biased perspective. But I'm a regular presence to the most important game conventions of my country, and you couldn't but trip on the sheer amount of comic-, anime-, wuxia-, TV SF/Fantasy-related stuff, while you would be *extremely* pressed to find anything remotely related to this luche libre stuff you so enthusiastically describe (and believe me, I do check the stands of cult/b-movie stuff thoroughly). My worries about the appeal of such a book came from this perspective. Maybe it's a mainly American fad (in the good sense), so far, and it has yet to spread this side of the pond.

Jack Black is coming out with what looks like a promising movie this year about a mexican priest who moonlights as a lucha libre wrestler which is evidence that it is catching on in some circles. However, there is very little if any 'earnest' discussion of lucha libre specifically among wrestling fans at my FLGS (the biggest/largest store of a heavily populated within a 60 mile radius in southwestern Ohio) and during my 1 1/2 days at Origins and 4-day wanderings at GenCon last year I saw absolutely no reference to Lucha Libre whatsoever.

[GestaltBennie]

Champions Of The North - yes!!! but i hope it not such a ripoff of Alfa Flight[hope Scott rereads Captain Canuck]

I liked Alpha Flight - during the Byrne era and during some of the Hudnall stories - and I thought Captain Canuck was an okay book for its time. For me, however, the definitive Canadian superheroes are the "Canadian Whites" of the Golden Age: Johnny Canuck, Nelvanna, Canada Jack. Simple stories, almost too cheezy to bear by modern standards, but told with good pulpy spirit and gusto

The treatment of Canada in superhero comics has been facile at best: which is to be expected when you're dealing with what's principly a American medium for a primarily American audience.For CotN 5e, we're a little freer in developing a Canada that feels like Canada should in a superhero world - an aspect where the priginal CotN fell a little short for me- and we're going to do better.

But I've wanted to write this book for over fifteen years and I'm overjoyed to finally get a crack at it. The research will be thorough, and I've already got some good people onboard to help me in that area.

[mallet]

I liked Alpha Flight - during the Byrne era and during some of the Hudnall stories - and I thought Captain Canuck was an okay book for its time. For me, however, the definitive Canadian superheroes are the "Canadian Whites" of the Golden Age: Johnny Canuck, Nelvanna, Canada Jack. Simple stories, almost too cheezy to bear by modern standards, but told with good pulpy spirit and gusto

The treatment of Canada in superhero comics has been facile at best: which is to be expected when you're dealing with what's principly a American medium for a primarily American audience.For CotN 5e, we're a little freer in developing a Canada that feels like Canada should in a superhero world - an aspect where the priginal CotN fell a little short for me- and we're going to do better.

But I've wanted to write this book for over fifteen years and I'm overjoyed to finally get a crack at it. The research will be thorough, and I've already got some good people onboard to help me in that area.

I hope Abbotsford (and the Fraser valley) turns out to be a major focal point of evil activity (just like in real life ).

And I still remember making one of my first Champions characters way back when (I think I was 12 or 13 at the time). He also went by the name "Captain Canuck" and he had that damn "susceptibility to Warm Beer" disadvantage, but man could he fly on his skates and he was a mean man in combat with his "Hockey Stick of Truth" (and the fact that he was officially sponsered by the NHL gave him official police powers in whichever major city had an NHL team).

Ah, the good old days of youth gaming when anything could make sense.

I don't play Champions anymore, but I am looking forward to getting this book.