Lucha Libre HERO already getting interest from non-HERO gamers

[hancock.tom]

http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=247810

I'm sure there will be more such threads on other gaming sites as lucha's release date gets closer.

[BobGreenwade]

That's good news. Let's let DOJ sell lots and lots and lots of books (and thereby have more room to print more Star Hero support ).

[Spence]

Anything that sells more product and spreads a positive word about Hero is great. But I actually took LLH as a joke. Of course I still cannot comprehend how anyone can be interested in the WWF or whatever they call themselves now. And people are interested, of that I have no doubt...

[CorPse]

Can't say I'll be lining up for LLH myself... but Hero is a business first... move some units, boys, and we all benefit.

[Hugh Neilson]

There's something to be said for being the biggest (or only) fish in a small pond. No doubt, there is more demand for fantasy or Sci Fi, or perhaps even Supers and Horror games. But there are also a lot more fantasy, sci-fi, Supers and horror games on the market (or out there but no longer published).

I'd rather capture 90% of a market 1 million strong than 10% of a market 5 million strong.

[Spence]

I'd rather capture 90 of a market 1 million strong than 10% of a market 5 million strong.

Be careful with the higher math there...

[archermoo]

Anything that sells more product and spreads a positive word about Hero is great. But I actually took LLH as a joke. Of course I still cannot comprehend how anyone can be interested in the WWF or whatever they call themselves now. And people are interested, of that I have no doubt...

Just as a point, Lucha Libre and WWF are two very different things.

[Spence]

Just as a point, Lucha Libre and WWF are two very different things.

Well I will admit I know VERY LITTLE about it.

But on the surface. Fake wrestling and animated fake wrestling.

But then I did think anime was "just cartoons" until recently......

But I neither confirm or deny any appearance or appearance of an action that may be construed or misconstrued as admitting wrongness or claiming correctness on this or any other issue.

[keithcurtis]

Lucha Libre is an action adventure genre that has elements of horror, superheroes and science fiction. It doesn't take place in a wrestling ring (though sooner or later, from what I understand, they'll be in one for part of the movie.)
WWF is an entertainment style that takes place in a wrestling ring solely. The only plot is a wrestling match. Luchadores fight vampires and robots and crazed midgets.

Dangit, Secret Master, help out and explain this better.

Keith "or wait for the book" Curtis

[Hugh Neilson]

Be careful with the higher math there...

It's typing, not math, that's the problem there! Fixed, thanks.

[Egyptoid]

Lucha Libre is like Strong-Bad, right?

[hancock.tom]

Well I will admit I know VERY LITTLE about it.

But on the surface. Fake wrestling and animated fake wrestling.

But then I did think anime was "just cartoons" until recently......

While there is a lucha libre cartoon, the genre originated in wrestling and movies, the cartoon is only the next step.

Anime is more than just cartoons?

[CorPse]

Lucha Libre is like Strong-Bad, right?

I'm not an expert either, but living in LA gives me 1pt. of Spanish. I believe Lucha Libre roughly translates to free or any hold... as in the English phrase no holds barred.

Those of you with a fuller knowledge of Spanish please feel free to step in and help me out...

CorPse

[Peregrine]

Let's look at the potential profitability for LLH (or, indeed, any Hero supplement.)

There are two ways in which Hero can make a profit from LLH. One, is if LLH sells enough copies that Hero makes a profit on the print run itself. That's the simple case, and the most desirable, I'm guessing.

Two is if sales of LLH spur sales of other Hero books as well. In this case, even if LLH does not make a profit on the print run, associated sales of other Hero books, especially books that have already made a profit on their own print runs, could cover the cost of the LLH print run and ultimately generate an overall profit for Hero. (The situation I have just described would make LLH a 'loss leader", i.e. Hero takes a loss on the LLH print run in order to generate additional sales of already profitable books, or to make another book profitable through the additional sales.)

Ideally, from Hero's POV, LLH would make a profit on its own, and generate additional sales of other books. In fact, LLH probably will generate additional sales, because you would likely need, at minimum, HS5eR (or Sidekick?) and UMA to run an LLH game. (There will, of course, be those who get LLH and use it as a sourcebook for another game. Not much you can do about that, except to only sell LLH in a bundle with Sidekick, for example.) If you are counting on LLH selling to currently non-Hero gamers, this (additional sales of other books) is what you are expecting to happen.

My expectations? I think LLH will be a loss leader; I really don't see enough demand to cover the costs of a print run (which include production costs and printer setup costs). It is possible that associated sales of HS5eR (and/or Sidekick) and UMA will cover the rest of the cost, if and as those books are also available when LLH is released. This of course, presumes that enough currently non-Hero gamers buy both LLH and the associated books. And that is in part dependent on their expectations (not intimately familiar with the Hero product line, remember?) of LLH being a standalone game vs. a supplement for a separately published ruleset, i.e., are the currently non-Hero LL fans willing to buy not only LLH, but the associated book(s) as well, as the 'cost of entry' into playing LLH?

Time (and the marketplace), of course, will tell.

P.S. In the discussion of 'associated books', I left out the Combat Handbook. While it would definitely be useful for a LLH game, I don't see it as being necessary, whereas HS5eR (or Sidekick) definitely is; UMA very probably is, as I don't think Hero will reprint the relevant portions of UMA in LLH.

[Twilight]

Lucha Libre is a form of professional wrestling and is very athletic and acrobatic, though it does incorporate grappling moves in addition to all the high-flying flippy floppy moves. The proper term for practitioners of Lucha Libre is luchador [or luchadora if it's a girl]. Luchadors traditionally wear masks but that's not always the case, some choose not to wear them while others lose them as part of match stipulations.

However Lucha Libre is also a movie genre in Mexico, started I belive by the likes of El Santo, Blue Demon and Mil Mascaras. El Santo in fact was at one point one of the most successful movie stars in Mexico.

That's all I've got, hope it helps.