magic

[Kefrem]

how would one go about making a magic type pool similar to dr.strange? i mean..doc always seems to shoot spells from the hip and always seems to have just what he needs when he needs it...would this just be one wicked VPP? or something different...i have the old mystic masters book..but...alot of it seems either illegal now..or just hoky, any ideas out there?

[Chaosliege]

Originally posted by Kefrem
how would one go about making a magic type pool similar to dr.strange? i mean..doc always seems to shoot spells from the hip and always seems to have just what he needs when he needs it...would this just be one wicked VPP? or something different...i have the old mystic masters book..but...alot of it seems either illegal now..or just hoky, any ideas out there?

A mage on the order of Doc Strange would definately be a VPP(probably along the lines of 75-85 active points).
It would have "change powers as 0 phase action" +1.
Posibly "no skill roll" +1 ( if you're talking Doc Strange)
Limited class of powers(magic) -1/4

A lower level mage could have a small VPP and a Multipower to hold the "well known" spells.

[Lord Liaden]

I concur with the VPP as the generally simplest way to run a character as versatile as Strange, but for a mage of his power level, I could easily see boosting the size of the pool to 100 AP or more.

Another possibility would be to create one or more Multipowers with high Active Points for his most powerful and/or commonly used spells, and keep a smaller VPP for all his "plot device" spells.

One point-saving suggestion for "supermages" that Dean Shomshak presented in The Ultimate Supermage is to give their spells Variable Limitations. This is to represent how Dr. Strange and his ilk frequently use incantions, hand gestures, talismans etc. when casting their spells, but never seem to need any particular one of them. Sure, you could call it simple s/fx like Mystic Masters does, but this way is equally valid, and cheaper.

[Monolith]

I agree with Lord Liaden here. Looking at the power levels of some of the major badguys in CU (the type of characters Dr. Strange fights on a regular basis) I would think that even 100 points would be too slim. IIRC, the Astra Form example power alone is a 180+ power in FREd, and while Dr. Strange does use his Orb/Eye of Agamotto to do the hopping, he can do it with a spell as well when he needs too.

[Klytus]

I agree with the VPP route. But if you want to save yourself (and the GM) some headaches, keep a list of pre-defined spells handy. By all means, make up powers on the fly - tis why VPP's are so nice - just write down any new stuff you come up with so you can do it again without figuring out the advantages and lims all over again.

[tiger]

VPP would be the way to go. I would take the time to work up some "pre-made" spells so you don't have to work them up on the fly

[Kefrem]

astral form? 180points? i just did the desolid(leaves body behind with flight linked to it...only cost like 40pts...i gave it extra time to simlulate the meditation required

[Monolith]

Originally posted by Kefrem
astral form? 180points? i just did the desolid(leaves body behind with flight linked to it...only cost like 40pts...i gave it extra time to simlulate the meditation required

I assume you are allowing that character to attack normals while desolid without paying the +2 Affects Real World advantage then.

[DarkGreen]

Hmm... how much of a limitation are gestures and incantations in a VPP. If restrained, the power just gets redefined as not needing those.

This is the main problem I have GMing or playing VPPs, most disads seem to be non disads in a VPP. I would let someone take a focus disad if it were accessible and with the understanding that those points are gone with the focus if someone grabs it. Otherwise you're limited to non-situational disads like activation rolls, extra end, and such.

Even extra time isn't much of a disad if it's thrown on a power outside of combat. The assumption I would make would be that the extra time disad would be taken to match whatever time the character knows he has available - nixing it as a disad!

Maybe I'm too much of a hardass on that one, but otherwise isn't a VPP just a license to abuse the rules?

-DG

[Klytus]

Originally posted by DarkGreen
Maybe I'm too much of a hardass on that one, but otherwise isn't a VPP just a license to abuse the rules?
-DG [/B]

Why are you a hardass if you want Limitatioins to be limiting? Any power can be used to abuse the rules if the GM doesn't monitor it or enforce the rules. A VPP is very flexible, and many Limitatons are not very limiting under certain circumstances - like the example you cited about Extra Time taken out of combat. The solution is provided on page 179 of FREd, in big bold letters:

A Limitation which doesn;t limit the character isn't worth any bonus!"

Granted, Limitations that can be shifted from one use of a power to another, such as Gestures and Limitations, may seem weak. However, so long as they place a restriction on the power at the time it is used, it is Limiting. Now, if there was a limit on the Control Cost, that would be worth something, as it must be used every time. One good idea I've seen is to have a Variable Limitation on the Control Cost. That is, every time a spell is cast, there must be a fixed amount of Limitations on each spell. If you set the Var Lim at -1, then the caster must have at least that much in Limitatons on each spell cast, a common example being Gestures, Incantations and 1/2 DCV concentration. If they are tied up, they'd have to come up with a different Limitations to get the -1, maybe x3 END or Side Effects.

There are always ways to make sure Limitations have teeth.

[Chaosliege]

Originally posted by Monolith
I agree with Lord Liaden here. Looking at the power levels of some of the major badguys in CU (the type of characters Dr. Strange fights on a regular basis) I would think that even 100 points would be too slim. IIRC, the Astra Form example power alone is a 180+ power in FREd, and while Dr. Strange does use his Orb/Eye of Agamotto to do the hopping, he can do it with a spell as well when he needs too.

Wow, they realy have uped the power level of the vilains haven't thry? I dont have CKC or CU yet, so I was basing off the guys we se in our games. Our guys are limited to 70 act max, so I figure 85 would be pretty tough. I guess not .

[lemming]

Originally posted by DarkGreen
Hmm... how much of a limitation are gestures and incantations in a VPP. If restrained, the power just gets redefined as not needing those.

There are players I trust with VPPs and players I wouldn't trust. I also expect math ability.

Come to think of it, I don't trust myself with a wide open VPP. Too good at math and wargaming in my background, I tend to get too effiecient....

However, I'm OK with VPPs that have limited forms of powers. I like lists of powers. One character I played was Scavenger. His schtick was that all of his equipment was "discarded" from other PCs & NPCs. He had a 140 pnt VPP, but nothing too outrageous was available. And of course, it was only changeable at base. (well, unless he found something real cool while out)