Lensman Hero Questions

[TheRavenIs]

I have a basic question? How would the minds of herodom do the Lens?

Is it a VPP, An EC or MP?

The reason I am asking is that I might in the near future do a Character or game based on the Lensman Books.

[Dr. Anomaly]

Really, that depends.

The Lens that most (first stage) Lensmen used seemed to be little more than a good amount of Telepathy with a high Universal Translator roll as well. A case could be made for Mind Scan (with some really monstrous number of Penalty Skill Levels to offset a staggeringly large OECV modifier as they were regularly used over planetary distances and frequently interstellar distances [though we usually only saw the very advanced Lensmen do this...after all, when Kinnison and VanBuskirk were trying to get the info on the cosmic energy power source back to Prime Base, Kinnison (who was then just a first-stage Lensman) didn't Lens Port Admiraly Haynes from Velantia...he actually had to get back to Earth physically].)

It's also possible that to represent easily contacting other Lensmen over vast distances, a version of Mind Link (any one mind, one at a time), no LOS needed to establish link, unlimited range in this dimension, target mind must also have Mind Link [a Lens].

Of couse, as noted only the more advanced Lensmen seemed to be able to do this, so it may be something to add as the character grows in experience.

Also, it appears that the vast majority of Lensmen can't read into a target's memories or subconcious. Remember one of the first things Kinnison did with his new advanced training was to solve a murder mystery on Radilex? One of the accused was innocent, and was quite willing to prove it mentally, but the 'ordinary' Lensmen there weren't up to the job, so it seems pretty obvious that the vast majority of Lensmen can't use the Telepathy to probe memories.

So far, none of these would be in a Multipower because you need them to all be available at the same time.

The more advanced Lensmen wouldn't have a limitation on the Telepathy that prevented them from reading into a target's memories or subconcious. And/or add more dice of Telepathy. The advanced Lensmen regularly hit the "target does not remember being probed" level of mental effect, too, which argues for more dice of Telepathy.

As you start getting more advanced Lensmen, you could start adding Mind Control (perhaps turning the Telepathy into a two-slot Multipower with the Mind Control) and an Ego Attack (also a candidate for it becoming a Multipower). Later still, the Ego Attack needs the Does Body Advantage (as Kinnison and a few others learned to kill with mental force).

I'm assuming you don't want to think about L3 stuff for PCs, so I'll skip trying to make suggestions there.

Remember, too, that a Lens will kill, in an agonizing fashion, anyone who wears it if that person is not the one to which it's attuned, and even just touching it fleetingly is enough to send a real agonizing shock through a person's body. That would probably be an NND Does Body 0 END Persistant Trigger, automatically reseting (when removed from contact with the person to whom it is attuned), No Concious Control, OAF (Lens).

[TheRavenIs]

Thank you Dr. I was figuring it would end up being a MP. I was thinking that if a C did make it to Lv2. I might add a EC of the Lens for the Second Stage powers. If I did it that way I'd have to have a target for exp set so 2nd stage was meet.

[David Johnston]

There's no point in bothering with a multipower. First stage (human) Lensmen can just do telepathy. 2nd stages have a suite of powers, but can use them all simultaneously so that's an elemental. I'd assume the reason why some of them can't get into memories is just because they don't have enough dice in it.

[Major Tom]

As I understand from my reading of the Lensman stories to which I have
access, the Lens doesn't grant telepathy to its wearers; rather, it concen-
trates and makes available to the wearer those powers that he (and later
on, in the case of the Red Lensman, she) already possesses. In ad-
dition, it's been more or less implied that Lensmen of any of the four chosen
races of the Arisians -- Tellurians (Earthlings), Palanians, Rigellians, and the
Velantians -- are the finest specimens of their respective races, both men-
tally and physically. Players creating Lensmen are, therefore, probably going
to have scores of at least 20 in their Primary Characteristics, with EGO being
slightly above 20 (representing the strong wills that Lensmen must, of nec-
essity, possess in order to use the Lens). In addition, Lensman characters
should also be given some level of Telepathy.


Major Tom

[Mark Rand]

As I understand from my reading of the Lensman stories to which I have
access, the Lens doesn't grant telepathy to its wearers; rather, it concen-
trates and makes available to the wearer those powers that he (and later
on, in the case of the Red Lensman, she) already possesses. In ad-
dition, it's been more or less implied that Lensmen of any of the four chosen
races of the Arisians -- Tellurians (Earthlings), Palanians, Rigellians, and the
Velantians -- are the finest specimens of their respective races, both men-
tally and physically. Players creating Lensmen are, therefore, probably going
to have scores of at least 20 in their Primary Characteristics, with EGO being
slightly above 20 (representing the strong wills that Lensmen must, of nec-
essity, possess in order to use the Lens). In addition, Lensman characters
should also be given some level of Telepathy.


Major Tom

I agree with Major Tom's statements.

I should know. I have all six Lensmen books and the second edition of GURPS Lensmen in my collection.

[Major Tom]

I've been thinking about how the Lens might be done in HERO, and this is what
I've come up with so far:

To begin with, the Lens would be designed as an OAF Focus (OAF because
the Lens can be removed from a Lensman by force, as was described in
First Lensman). Since its primary function is to enhance and make it
possible for Lensmen to use their innate telepathic powers, I'd make it an
Aid, Only to increase Telepathic power level, with the Megascale advantage
thrown in to represent the Lens' ability to enable instantaneous telepathic
communication across several light-years. I'd also include Universal Trans-
lator to represent the Lens' ability to instantly render any form of communi-
cation understandable to the Lensman, no matter how alien. However, some
concepts may not be understood by a Lensman, no matter how much trans-
lation the Lens provides.

As to how much of a boost the Lens provides to Telepathic powers, I'd say
that it would depend on two things: one, how high do you want starting
power levels (Active Point cost) to be, and two, where in the Lensman
universe's timeline do you plan on setting your campaign?

If the campaign is set during the period described in First Lensman, the
overall power level is probably going to be just high enough to allow long-
range telepathic communication, say, between Earth and colony worlds out-
side the Solar System. On the other hand, if the campaign is going to be set
in the Gray Lensman period, then the power levels are going to be con-
siderably higher, especially for Second-Stage Lensmen.


Major Tom

[McCoy]

I have a basic question? How would the minds of herodom do the Lens?

Is it a VPP, An EC or MP?

The reason I am asking is that I might in the near future do a Character or game based on the Lensman Books.

VPP, it's Green Lantern's ring.

Or more accurately I think the Silver Age GLC was the Lensmen with a new coat of paint.

[input.jack]

VPP, it's Green Lantern's ring.

Or more accurately I think the Silver Age GLC was the Lensmen with a new coat of paint.

And it wasnt a very thick coat, either. (No primer, for that matter)

[David Johnston]

As I understand from my reading of the Lensman stories to which I have
access, the Lens doesn't grant telepathy to its wearers; rather, it concen-
trates and makes available to the wearer those powers that he (and later
on, in the case of the Red Lensman, she) already possesses.

Clarissa Kinnison can't read minds without a lens. She can read them with a lens. This is typical of Terran lensmen (provided they haven't reached 2nd stage). Now, the internal justification for how the lens works may say that the reason why lensmen can use the lens for telepathy is because they have a small ability to sense thoughts that, when amplified is enough to let them to actually read thoughts, but in game terms, the lens gives Telepathy to Terrans and increases the power of people who already have Telepathy.

[Lemurion]

Tellurians, in the main, are not telepathic. However any Tellurian Lensman could be considered a latent psionic, with that power unlocked by the Lens.

Any first-stage Lensman is unable to use their abilities without the Lens, and their abilities are limited to telepathy with any class of mind and universal translator. However as they progress they not only gain improved telepathy and mind control abilities, they may also learn the sense of Perception (Spatial Awareness).

By the time a Lensman reaches Second Stage they are able to perform most of their abilities with or without the Lens, however they still need it to be able to perform at their absolute max.

Clear Ether.

[Lucius]

VPP, it's Green Lantern's ring.

Or more accurately I think the Silver Age GLC was the Lensmen with a new coat of paint.

Did the Lensmen have an oath? I don't have my books handy, or I'd be checking myself.

Lucius Alexander

I think the palindromedary ate the books

[csyphrett]

Did the Lensmen have an oath? I don't have my books handy, or I'd be checking myself.

Lucius Alexander

I think the palindromedary ate the books

They didn't have an oath as such because the Lens never ran out of power, but they did agree to protect civilization for the rest of their lives.
CES

[Major Tom]

They didn't have an oath as such because the Lens never ran out of power, but they did agree to protect civilization for the rest of their lives.
CES

Actually, there was an oath that Lensmen took upon being invested with the
symbol of their rank (the Lens), and it's in Galactic Patrol:

QUOTE: "I promise before the Omnipotent Witness never to lower the stan-
dard of the Galactic Patrol."

Of course, this oath probably didn't come into being until after the Galactic
Patrol had been established and had been operating for centuries (at least).


Major Tom

[Koshka]

There's no point in bothering with a multipower. First stage (human) Lensmen can just do telepathy. 2nd stages have a suite of powers, but can use them all simultaneously so that's an elemental. I'd assume the reason why some of them can't get into memories is just because they don't have enough dice in it.

Without pulling the book out to check, I think the trouble on Radelix was that the two suspects had untrained but strong blocks -- in Hero terms, Mental Defense. The local Lensmen could have settled matters in three seconds under "normal" circumstances, but couldn't dig deep enough with the blocks in the way. Kinnison has more dice, but I'm wondering if he's also got AP to ease past those blocks.

Clarissa Kinnison can't read minds without a lens. She can read them with a lens.

It's implied that Clarissa has some psychic powers before she gets her Lens -- she pulls Kinnison into a wide-open two-way without either of them realizing just what she's doing. Admittedly, Kinnison initiates mental contact and then Clarissa gets way more than she expected ....