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Thread: The Five

  1. #46
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    Re: The Five

    Quote Originally Posted by Enforcer84
    on her forcefield is the concentration only to activate?
    Yes.

    She seems a bit...tame for the others in the group.
    But a worthy addition. I like her personality and style.
    Yup. That's a problem. The first draft made it clear she had killed the Union Carbide bribe taker, but I wanted some ambiguity for more Silver Age games. She's based on the activist girls I used to know, taken past simple IRA or PLO fundraising and into actual terrorism.

    I'll try to add some more texture to her tomorrow. Thanks for the feedback.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cancer View Post
    The thing is, you often can refute a position with 100% certainty. What you cannot do is make an ignoramus recognize it, especially when that ignoramus is parroting something he read or heard and has never really understood...
    Quote Originally Posted by OddHat
    People tend to estimate the limits of Human Achievement by looking in the mirror.
    My new diet and exercise page and podcast

  2. #47
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    Re: The Five

    OK, re-wrote Parvati. I expanded her powers list and tried to make her a bit more recognizably dangerous. Also did some polishing on her back story and talked more about her tactics.

    All feedback appreciated. Only Thor to go.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cancer View Post
    The thing is, you often can refute a position with 100% certainty. What you cannot do is make an ignoramus recognize it, especially when that ignoramus is parroting something he read or heard and has never really understood...
    Quote Originally Posted by OddHat
    People tend to estimate the limits of Human Achievement by looking in the mirror.
    My new diet and exercise page and podcast

  3. #48
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    Re: The Five

    From the NGD:

    http://www.virgincomics.com/


    That first image might make a good Parvati...

    "Do it?" Dan, I'm not a Republic serial villain. Do you seriously think I'd explain my master-stroke if there remained the slightest chance of you affecting its outcome?

    I did it thirty-five minutes ago.

  4. #49
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    Re: The Five

    Quote Originally Posted by gojira
    From the NGD:

    http://www.virgincomics.com/


    That first image might make a good Parvati...

    Thanks, it would.

    I should probably commission someone to do a full set of pics for the New Circle and the Five.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cancer View Post
    The thing is, you often can refute a position with 100% certainty. What you cannot do is make an ignoramus recognize it, especially when that ignoramus is parroting something he read or heard and has never really understood...
    Quote Originally Posted by OddHat
    People tend to estimate the limits of Human Achievement by looking in the mirror.
    My new diet and exercise page and podcast

  5. #50
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    Re: The Five

    The Thunder God
    TUIREANN (BRAIN "BULL" MCLOGHLIN)
    Val Char Cost Roll Notes
    75 STR 5 24- Lift 819.2tons; 15d6; [15]
    24 DEX 12 14- OCV 8 DCV 8
    43 CON 6 18-
    32 BODY 4 15-
    13 INT 3 12- PER Roll 12-
    10 EGO 0 11- ECV: 3
    23 PRE 3 14- PRE Attack: 4 1/2d6
    12 COM 1 11-

    27 PD 0 Total: 27 PD (12 rPD)
    15 ED 0 Total: 15 ED (12 rED)
    5 SPD 6 Phases: 3, 5, 8, 10, 12
    24 REC 0
    86 END 0
    92 STUN 0 Total Characteristic Cost: 40


    Movement: Running: 6" / 12"
    Swimming: 2" / 4"
    Leaping: 25" / 50"

    Cost Powers END
    Gifts of the Ukonvasara, all slots Only In Heroic Identity (-1/4) Note: The Ukonvasara is a double-headed stone tool and weapon, one head a hammer, the other an axe. Those with appropriate skills may identify it as patterned after an ancient Indo-European Thunderstone. The stone head appears to be iron ore, the haft oak. Universal Translator reveals the runes on the hammer's surface as reading "Perkwunos, Rain Bringer, Thunder Maker".
    143 1) The Sacred Bull: (Total: 178 Active Cost, 143 Real Cost) +60 STR (60 Active Points); Only In Heroic Identity (-1/4) (Real Cost: 48) plus +30 CON (60 Active Points); Only In Heroic Identity (-1/4) (Real Cost: 48) plus +20 BODY (40 Active Points); Only In Heroic Identity (-1/4) (Real Cost: 32) plus +12 PD (12 Active Points); Only In Heroic Identity (-1/4) (Real Cost: 10) plus +6 ED (6 Active Points); Only In Heroic Identity (-1/4) (Real Cost: 5) 12
    54 2) Power of the Storm: (Total: 79 Active Cost, 54 Real Cost) +10 DEX (30 Active Points); Only In Heroic Identity (-1/4) (Real Cost: 24) plus +1 SPD (10 Active Points); Only In Heroic Identity (-1/4) (Real Cost: 8) plus Defense Maneuver I-IV (10 Active Points); Only In Heroic Identity (-1/4) (Real Cost: 8) plus Leaping +10" (25" forward, 12 1/2" upward) (Accurate), Variable Advantage (+1/4 Advantages; Typically used for Usable as Flight, Reduced END, or Megascale; +1/2) (29 Active Points); Visible (Accompanied by loud thunderclaps, electrical displays, wind bursts, etc; -1/4), Only In Heroic Identity (-1/4) (Real Cost: 14) 3
    28 3) Warrior Eternal: (Total: 52 Active Cost, 28 Real Cost) Damage Resistance (12 PD/12 ED) (12 Active Points); Only In Heroic Identity (-1/4) (Real Cost: 10) plus Life Support (Extended Breathing: 1 END per Turn; Safe in High Pressure; Safe in High Radiation; Safe in Intense Cold; Safe in Intense Heat; Safe in Low Pressure/Vacuum) (10 Active Points); Only In Heroic Identity (-1/4) (Real Cost: 8) plus Healing 1 BODY, Can Heal Limbs, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2) (30 Active Points); Extra Time (Regeneration-Only) 1 Turn (Post-Segment 12) (-1 1/4), Self Only (-1/2), Only In Heroic Identity (-1/4) (Real Cost: 10) 0
    16 4) Thunder Maker: (Total: 20 Active Cost, 16 Real Cost) +10 PRE (10 Active Points); Only In Heroic Identity (-1/4) (Real Cost: 8) plus Hearing Group Flash Defense (5 points) (5 Active Points); Only In Heroic Identity (-1/4) (Real Cost: 4) plus Sight Group Flash Defense (5 points) (5 Active Points); Only In Heroic Identity (-1/4) (Real Cost: 4) 0
    37 The Ukonvasara: Multipower, 75-point reserve, (75 Active Points); all slots OAF Unbreakable (-1)
    3u 1) Thunder's Crash: Hand-To-Hand Attack +7 1/2d6, Reduced Endurance (1/2 END; +1/4), Armor Piercing (+1/2) (66 Active Points); OAF Unbreakable (-1), Hand-To-Hand Attack (-1/2) Note: 15d6 AP with Strength. This blow is accompanied by a windows-shaking crash of thunder. 3
    3u 2) Lightning's Edge: Killing Attack - Hand-To-Hand 3d6-1 (5d6+1 w/STR), Reduced Endurance (1/2 END; +1/4), Armor Piercing (+1/2) (70 Active Points); OAF Unbreakable (-1) Note: Striking with the blade of the Ukonvasara transmutes the force of the blow into a lightning-like electrical discharge. 3
    3u 3) Call the Storm: Change Environment 8" radius, 4 Temperature Level Adjustment, Long-Lasting 20 Minutes, Varying Effect Limited Group (+1/2), Variable Advantage (+1/4 Advantages; +1/2) (68 Active Points); OAF Unbreakable (-1) 7
    2u 4) Hammer Spin: Force Wall (12 PD/12 ED), Hardened (+1/4) (75 Active Points); OAF Unbreakable (-1), No Range (-1/2), Self Only (-1/2) 7
    4u 5) Lightning Strike: Killing Attack - Ranged 3d6+1, No Range Modifier (+1/2) (75 Active Points); OAF Unbreakable (-1) 7


    Skills
    Petty Criminal
    3 1) Persuasion 14-
    2 2) PS: Criminal Business 11-
    3 3) Streetwise 14-
    3 4) Deduction 12-
    3 5) Seduction 14-
    Newfound Interests
    1 1) Language: Gaelic (basic conversation)
    2 2) KS: Irish Legends and Lore 11-
    0 Language: English (idiomatic; literate) (5 Active Points)


    Total Powers & Skill Cost: 310
    Total Cost: 350

    200+ Disadvantages
    10 Distinctive Features: Magical and Extradimensional Aura (Not Concealable; Always Noticed and Causes Major Reaction; Detectable Only By Unusual Senses)
    15 Enraged: In Combat and When Insulted (Common), go 8-, recover 11-
    15 Hunted: UK Law Enforcement and Metahumans 8- (Mo Pow, NCI, Limited Geographical Area, Harshly Punish) Note: Tuireann's criminal activities have made him a target of UK law enforcement agencies. Brian has a criminal reccord, but is not currently wanted.
    10 Reputation: Dangerous Metahuman Criminal, 11- (Extreme; Known Only To A Small Group)
    15 Social Limitation: Secret ID: Brian "Bull" McLoghlin (Frequently, Major)
    20 Psychological Limitation: Must Serve and Obey Yggdrasil (Common, Total)
    15 Psychological Limitation: Hedonist, Pleasure Seeker, Party Animal, Spendthrift (Very Common, Moderate)
    50 Experience Points

    Total Disadvantage Points: 350

    Background/History: Shot, bleeding out in a rain flooded London alleyway, Brian McLoghlin’s life of minor league crime should have ended. One too many lies, one too many betrayals, and then nothing but a sodden body found the next day.

    Brian the Bull did not die. Under the rain, inside the storm, Brian dreamed. He saw a long house, smoke filled. He heard rain, and thunder. In the dream, Brian stood, and stepped outside. The world was a tree, a great tree. Brian stood astride a branch wide as a storm soaked city road, wide as a rain flooded alley. In his hand was a stone hammer.

    Brian woke, his wounds healed, hammer still in his hand. His body was filled with power, his mind with visions of the Tree, and of his destiny. The thing that leapt up into the sky that night was no longer entirely Brian McLoghlin. He was Tuireann, and he was the storm.

    Personality/Motivation: Brian was always self centered. A pleasure seeker with no thought of tomorrow, he enjoyed hurting people, using brains and fists to get what he wanted. For a while, he was clever enough to get away with it.

    With the hammer, Brian no longer thinks only of himself. He has a purpose, friends, and a future. He still brawls, womanizes, drinks heavily, and makes use of recreational pharmaceuticals. He still takes what he wants. Now, however, he does so in the knowledge that he is part of a greater whole. He fights for Yggdrasil.

    Quote: “There was me, that is Brian, and my three mates, that is Pete, Georgie and Dim…”

    “Come and have a go, if you think you’re hard enough!”

    Powers/Tactics: Brian continues to maintain his criminal connections, and has indeed expanded them since becoming Tuiriann. He serves the Five as their only real connection to the underworld, and as their only member with street level investigative skills. PCs with street level connections might run into Brian, and even exchange information with the well traveled Londoner.

    As Tuireann, Brian has superhuman physical strength and resilience together with a master martial artists speed. He has demonstrated the ability to accurately leap the length of a football field, fly in the air, and launch himself several kilometers in an uncontrolled bound. His hammer, the Ukonvasara, can deliver blows with enough force to smash through light tank armor. He has also demonstrated the power to call or dismiss storms.

    In combat, Tuireann will close with his foes and rely on brute force to bring them down. If overwhelmed, he may choose to spin his hammer at blinding speeds, forming a makeshift wall as he retreats. Once he has some distance, he will strike with extremely accurate lightning bolts.

    It’s important to remember that, when not Enraged, Tuireann can be a fairly clever fighter. He will play dead, fake weakness, go on the defensive as he seeks an advantage, and do whatever it takes to win.

    Campaign Use: Thor as a petty thug and gang member, wild rage and not much in the way of tactics. Tuireann is the single member of the Five least concerned with their greater mission. He will obey the Doomsayer or Bonyenn, and he trusts Parvati and Yemos, but on his own he’d probably slip into metahuman mercenary work, at least until the silent voice of Yggdrasil called to him again.

    Inspirations included the storm gods Ukko, Tuireann, Perkwunos, and of course Marvel Comics Thor. Also mixed in Train Spotting and A Clockwork Orange.

    Appearance: As Brian, a tall, fit young man in cheap clothing, usually jeans and a t-shirt. Pale skin, red hair, green eyes. As Tuireann, a very powerfully muscular man in a crude leather vest, boots and leggings, heavily bearded, holding a combination stone axe and hammer.

    Character by Robert Dorf, 2006.
    Feedback welcomed.
    Last edited by OddHat; Jun 15th, '06 at 02:10 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cancer View Post
    The thing is, you often can refute a position with 100% certainty. What you cannot do is make an ignoramus recognize it, especially when that ignoramus is parroting something he read or heard and has never really understood...
    Quote Originally Posted by OddHat
    People tend to estimate the limits of Human Achievement by looking in the mirror.
    My new diet and exercise page and podcast

  6. #51
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    Re: The Five

    Looks very good!
    "See it's not that the Democrats are playing checkers and the Republicans are playing chess, it's that the Republicans are playing chess and the Democrats are in the nurse's office because once again they glued their balls to their thighs." - Jon Stewart
    2009: Else Earth Gods of Olympus
    Project 2006:
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  7. #52
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    Re: The Five

    List of characters in the thread added to first post, and again below. I may add some notes on using these characters in campaigns at some point, as well as a few plot seeds.

    Characters in this thread:
    BONYENNE MAII- Pual Bunyan meets Giant Man. The Cultural Hero.
    The Blue Ox - Paul's animal companion.

    YEMOS- Death meets the Vision. The God of the Underworld.

    DOOMSAYER - DR. SEPPO ILMARINEN- God of the Sky meets Iron Man. Skygod and Worldsmith, strongly inspired by Ilmarinen from Finnish myth.
    Doomsayer's Brass Man Armor-350 Armor as Vehicle
    Doomayer's Bronze Hounds- 350 point robot dogs
    Doomsayer's Anomaly Engine- 350 point Mystic Computer.
    Doomsayer's Chariot of Flame and Iron-350 point Super Vehicle, Chariot of the Gods.
    Doomsayer's Gold Wife-350 point Robot Brick, a tribute to Jocasta of the Avengers and to the Gold Wife of the mythical Ilmarinen.

    PARVATI-The Maiden aspect of the Triple Goddess meets the Scarlet Witch. The Great Goddess.

    TUIREANN- A Clockwork Orange and Trainspotting meet Thor. A mix of the Irish, Finnish and Proto Indo European Thunder Gods.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cancer View Post
    The thing is, you often can refute a position with 100% certainty. What you cannot do is make an ignoramus recognize it, especially when that ignoramus is parroting something he read or heard and has never really understood...
    Quote Originally Posted by OddHat
    People tend to estimate the limits of Human Achievement by looking in the mirror.
    My new diet and exercise page and podcast

  8. #53
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    Re: The Five

    May I suggest in the notes a little something about how they see each other? Their opinions, their issues with each other's habits and styles? That would give them even more color, IMO.
    <The Rose> I also have the PS: Human.
    <Lethosos> We all do; it's just some that have a low PS level.

    "Man ... I'm a naked robot and even I know that's a fashion no-no." -War Wolf, played by CrosshairCollie

    Current HERO project: The World of the Eight Sages, thoughts currently on IDS blog

  9. #54
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    Re: The Five

    Quote Originally Posted by Lethosos
    May I suggest in the notes a little something about how they see each other? Their opinions, their issues with each other's habits and styles? That would give them even more color, IMO.
    Thanks. I plan on some of that in the "How to use the five" guide.

    I just hope I can get motivated enough to write it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cancer View Post
    The thing is, you often can refute a position with 100% certainty. What you cannot do is make an ignoramus recognize it, especially when that ignoramus is parroting something he read or heard and has never really understood...
    Quote Originally Posted by OddHat
    People tend to estimate the limits of Human Achievement by looking in the mirror.
    My new diet and exercise page and podcast

  10. #55
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    Re: The Five

    *showers OddHat with plenty of movitating mojo he stole--er, borrowed from some passing trolls... *
    <The Rose> I also have the PS: Human.
    <Lethosos> We all do; it's just some that have a low PS level.

    "Man ... I'm a naked robot and even I know that's a fashion no-no." -War Wolf, played by CrosshairCollie

    Current HERO project: The World of the Eight Sages, thoughts currently on IDS blog

  11. #56
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    Re: The Five

    Begin Motivational Transfer now....

    ...

    .....
    .........
    ............
    ...ah I'll finish the transfer later...
    *sleeps*



    Bad Idea #21231234123
    "See it's not that the Democrats are playing checkers and the Republicans are playing chess, it's that the Republicans are playing chess and the Democrats are in the nurse's office because once again they glued their balls to their thighs." - Jon Stewart
    2009: Else Earth Gods of Olympus
    Project 2006:
    DC/Marvel Write up compilation
    Project 2004:
    Hero A Day Thread

  12. #57
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    Re: The Five

    Using the Five in Your Campaign

    Real World Purpose of the Five – The Five were intended for use as opponents in an upcoming convention game. I was going for a sort of Squadron Supreme versus the Avengers feel. I needed villains who were recognizable as homage characters, and I wanted room for a potential team up to fight the Real Bad Guys if the players decided to go that way. Due to the nature of the convention game, I needed Mystic characters, and I wanted to give them a little depth.

    Design Considerations – The power level of the convention game is “350 Point Cosmic”. Within that game, the Five and their foes will be able to perform mid-range Silver Age stunts. Planet juggling is out, but these characters are in context meant to be powerful, and their builds reflect that. If you’re interested in using them in your own games as they were intended to be used, you may want to bump them up to 600 or more points. Raise their DEX and SPD to something competitive when compared to your PCs, drop some limitations, boost their Power Pools, etc. Alternatively, in a Standard Supers game, you may wish to reduce their attack powers down to a level near the high end of the campaign’s damage range. Saved points can again go into DEX and SPD.
    All of the Five are Focus Dependant characters who can be stripped of their powers. This is intentional. It allows the PCs to capture and subdue them without having to kill (important to the tone of the game). It also means that the focuses themselves can be passed on to other NPCs in a campaign, ensuring a supply of future villains (or heroes). Finally, it helps point out that in the end, these characters are “false gods”, that someone or something is using them for its own ends.

    Who or What is Yggdrasil – The Five were designed as a group created and unified by an outside force with a hidden agenda. How you define that force will help determine how the Five fit into your campaign world. Yggdrasil could be active, giving the Five a specific set of missions which they must achieve. In that kind of game, adding a Watched or Subject to Orders might be appropriate. If Yggdrasil is working on a long term schedule, the Five might act as a variation on GRAB or the Devil’s Advocates, a villain team with their own agenda that, once in a while, helps out the heroes. Swap out Yggdrasil for another Mystic threat that has the resources to build something like the Five (DEMON, the Circle of the Scarlet Moon) and you have a strike team that doesn’t understand that it’s being manipulated. Drop Yggdrasil entirely, and maybe the Five are just what they seem; Avatars of the gods, righting wrongs that the campaign’s heroes ignore. For that matter, you can change the Five into NPC heroes with minimal tweaks.

    More to follow.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cancer View Post
    The thing is, you often can refute a position with 100% certainty. What you cannot do is make an ignoramus recognize it, especially when that ignoramus is parroting something he read or heard and has never really understood...
    Quote Originally Posted by OddHat
    People tend to estimate the limits of Human Achievement by looking in the mirror.
    My new diet and exercise page and podcast

  13. #58
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    Re: The Five

    Using the Five, pt.2

    Group Relations, Tactics and Role Playing – As written, the Five have primarily been opposed by conventional security forces and law enforcement. Those forces haven’t required much in the way of tactics for a group as powerful as the Five to overcome. This gives players in the convention game an advantage, if they can exploit it. In a campaign where the Five are used regularly, their tactics should improve.

    BONYENNE – The most obvious Brick of the group, and the leader in combat. The only member of the Five with a grasp of small unit tactics, Bonyenne’s combat role is to draw enemy fire, coordinate the group, and take out singularly dangerous targets. In his civilian ID, Paul socializes with Pari/Parvati at campus functions and with Brian/Tuireann in bars and clubs. He takes some care to preserve his secret identity.

    Relations with Yemos – Bonyenne sees Franz/Yemos as a rival for the affections of Parvati. Despite this, their mutual loyalty towards Yggdrasil serves to bond them together, and Bonyenne does understand the value of Yemos to the group. Paul has made Franz the occasional target of practical jokes.

    Relations with Doomsayer – Paul sees Seppo as something of a father figure, and is intimidated by the older man’s intellect and achievements. On the other hand, he finds Seppo’s obsession with technology disturbing, and the Gold Wife out and out creepy.

    Relations with Parvati – Paul loves Pari/Parvati passionately, and has since their first meeting. Their relationship has been rocky, but if anything that has made Paul’s attachment stronger. He is jealous of the attention that she pays to other men, and prone to overreaction.

    Relations with Tuireann – Paul and Brian get along well, frequently carousing together. Paul often finds himself mediating between Brian and the rest of the team. Paul is convinced that, in time, Brian will come around and realize the importance of the group’s mission beyond simple obedience to the will of Yggdrasil.
    Last edited by OddHat; Jul 13th, '06 at 08:59 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cancer View Post
    The thing is, you often can refute a position with 100% certainty. What you cannot do is make an ignoramus recognize it, especially when that ignoramus is parroting something he read or heard and has never really understood...
    Quote Originally Posted by OddHat
    People tend to estimate the limits of Human Achievement by looking in the mirror.
    My new diet and exercise page and podcast

  14. #59
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    Re: The Five

    Using the Five, pt.3

    YEMOS – The member of the group most likely to pass for a traditional vigilante. In combat, Yemos will go for the surprise attack whenever possible. Note also that he can always Grab and Squeeze or Throw with his rope, keeping foes off balance. He has no interest in toe to toe slugfests. Out of combat, he might be found volunteering at animal shelters, working as a large animal veterinarian, or working with activist groups. He’s not the partying type.

    Relations with Bonyenne – Yemos respects Bonnyenne’s skills in combat, his leadership qualities, and his commitment to the cause. He resents Bonyenne’s practical jokes, but believes that they are motivated by jealousy over Parvati. The relationship is strained.

    Relations with Doomsayer – Yemos sees Doomsayer as the wise old man of the group, and is inclined to follow his lead. Doomsayer’s robots have a purity that greatly appeals to Franz.

    Relations with Parvati – Franz finds Pari extremely attractive. However, he is also aware that she is emotionally very young, and that a relationship between them would put stress on the group. When in his Yemos form, he tends to keep Parvati at a distance. In his human form, when the two are alone, his body language and tone of voice tend to give his feelings away.

    Relations with Tuireann – Franz holds Brian in contempt. If they did not both serve Yggdrasil, he would drag the Irish criminal’s soul free and let it fall. As things stand, he coldly tolerates the thunder god.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cancer View Post
    The thing is, you often can refute a position with 100% certainty. What you cannot do is make an ignoramus recognize it, especially when that ignoramus is parroting something he read or heard and has never really understood...
    Quote Originally Posted by OddHat
    People tend to estimate the limits of Human Achievement by looking in the mirror.
    My new diet and exercise page and podcast

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    Re: The Five

    Using the Five, pt.4

    DOOMSAYER – Nominal leader of the group, the thinker and planner, the most potentially powerful, and, ultimately, the one who loves life least. Paul, Franz, Pari and Brian have passions, pleasures, and hopes. For Dr. Seppo Ilmarinen, there is only the mission, the service to Yggdrasil and the world. This makes the Doomsayer the most dangerous of the Five.
    In combat Doomsayer will hang back, directing his constructs to take the battle to the foe. He will rain down bolts of light from a safe distance, and flee if the battle turns against him. He cares for his team mates, but the mission always comes first.
    Out of combat, Dr. Ilmarinen still works as an adjunct lecturer when he can. He hopes that his words can push the young people of this world to take action. Considering the radical nature of his ideas and his gloomy personality, he has struck up a surprising number of distant friendships in the academic community over the years.

    Relations with Bonyenne – Paul’s enthusiasm is refreshing to Seppo, and he values the big man’s leadership skills. In combat, he will often target those who are targeting Paul.

    Relations with Yemos – Franz’s education went further than that of his peers in the Five, and his grim determination to build a better world echoes Seppo’s own. Ilmarinen treats Franz as a bright graduate student or teaching assistant.

    Relations with Parvati – Pari’s youthful arrogance grates on Ilmarinen, and her beauty means little to him. He does not approve of her flirtations with Paul and Franz. Seppo does value Pari’s extremely flexible power set, and can see her potential. He tends to treat her as if she were a gifted, badly behaved child.

    Relations with Tuireann – Seppo tends to overestimate Brian’s connections to the criminal underworld, and to over-value those connections. He is aware that Brian is ignorant on environmental and political matters, but so long as Brian obeys orders and acts in the best interests of Yggdrasil that concerns the Doomsayer not at all.
    Last edited by OddHat; Jun 17th, '06 at 11:56 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cancer View Post
    The thing is, you often can refute a position with 100% certainty. What you cannot do is make an ignoramus recognize it, especially when that ignoramus is parroting something he read or heard and has never really understood...
    Quote Originally Posted by OddHat
    People tend to estimate the limits of Human Achievement by looking in the mirror.
    My new diet and exercise page and podcast

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