Problem Creating New Magic System.

[Herolover]

Okay. Here is the deal.

I am going to be running a FH campaign and I am working on a magic system. Problem is I have run into a brick wall concering a couple of things. I have most of the system down, but a couple of things are bugging me.

--Spells are mental formulas that mages learn to use an energy called “aether.” Mages use “aether” to summon beings from other or have things occur in the material world. Mages acquire this “aether” from other planes and items in the material world.
--All spells cost END. This use of “aether” is very is very strenuous and causes great strain on a mage.
--In some areas of the material world the barrier between the planes is weak allowing spells to be cast more easily while in other areas the barrier between the planes is very strong causing spells to be difficult to cast. In some rare areas a mage is unable to draw upon aether and is unable to cast spells.
--Mages write there spells into spellbooks. It is from these spellbooks that mages memorize their spells. Each mage is able to memorize a number of spells

I want to achieve two main goals:
1) Mages will spend their own END to cast spells. This will simulate the strain it is to cast spells.
2) Mages occasionally need to refresh their spells, therefore all mages keep spellbooks.

First. If a mage can just cast spells without "memorizing their spells" why would they need to right them down in a book? This is why I feel I need the memorizing thing to explain why spellbooks exist.

The problem I have is coming up with a mechanic for the memorizing thing. I don't like the idea of charges because how do you decide what spell gets how many charges?

If you have any ideas please talk up.

For those of you that don't have any ideas here is an idea I have. All Mages purchase a small END pool and REC. The REC has the limitation that it will not work until the mage has studied his spell book for a period of time. All spells have the limitation: When casting spell 1/2 END must be paid by personal END.
How much would that limitation be worth?
What do you think?

[Derek Hiemforth]

I'd suggest putting the spells in a Multipower, then putting Charges on the Multipower as a whole (assuming we're talking about some reasonably low number of Charges). This means they can only use the Multipower itself "X" times, though they could use any slots they wished whatever number of times adds up to "X". You might add an additional -1/4 Limitation that they have to decide in advance how to allocate the Charges.

To deal with Charges only recovering once a day, you could make them Recoverable Charges. The means of Recovering them would be to simply re-memorize them.

If you really want to avoid Charges and just come up with a more roleplaying-driven means of dealing with it, you might just use the real-life considerations of memorization. In other words, mages write their spells down for the same reason anyone writes anything down: so they can look it up again if they forget. This doesn't necessarily mean that the spells go away in a D&D fashion memorization... it might just be more like actors in a play (for example).

When I was in high school and college, I did a lot of theater. In college, I did the play The Crucible. As Reverend Hale, I had a couple hundred lines. I had to study them to memorize them in the first place. After that, I just had to brush up on them once or twice during the week between weekend performances. While I was involved in doing the play, I had no trouble remembering them. However, within a few weeks/months after the play closed, I couldn't have told you many of them, and now (years later) I can't remember more than a couple.

Magic might work the same way. Mages study their spellbooks simply to ensure that they're remembering them right... not because of some mystical quality to the spells that makes them fade from the caster's mind instantly after casting. Perhaps you could apply a gradually an increasing penalty to the caster's Magic Skill roll as time passes since the last time they cast or studied a given spell.

[Markdoc]

Several points here to consider.

First the END thing: be aware - if you are not already - that although requiring END use makes spells temporarily exhausting, that this only lasts a minute or so. So as described, Mages can cast spells all day and potentially hundreds of spells a day. That might be exactly what you want, but if not, you might consider the longterm END rules, so that after an intense bout of spell-casting the mage is actually worn out and needs to rest for more than a minute or two.

Second, you can choose to have powers draw from an END battery or yourself: you only pay for an advantage if you want either. if the cost is fixed at 50% from the battery and 50% from yourself then I'd just call that a +0 advantage since it shares some of the advantages and some of the disadvatages of either method.

As for the spellbook thing. if mages write them down merely as an aid to memorisation, then I would suggest some kind of skill roll. You can assign penalties for how long it was since the mage last used a spell - and this can be reduced or negated if the mage has a copy to hand to study.

Thus the Change environment spell the mage uses every morning to warm up his bedroom when he wakes up, will be at a +3, while the one time in his life he needs to use Didius' Dire Gambit, he had better have the book to hand so he can read it...

If you also use the skill penalty for active points, then you can use the concept that small, simple spells are easier to remember than the 15 page instructions for casting the Calling Forth of the Hated Dead

cheers, Mark

[cutsleeve]

well for the spellbook thing you might want to set it up as RSR:Arcane Knowledge to activate the power for that day. then give pc's a spellbook (oaf -1) skill levels (only for arcane knowledge) (must be read to gain benefit +1/4).

something like that. it makes it so they could try activating the multipower without the book but it might not work. but youd give the spellbook enough skill levels to make it a sure shot.

thats about all i have.

[BlackCobra]

I don't have a lot of time to write this, so I'll be cosmically brief:

Delayed Effect

hope that helps.

[Dean Edgell]

I like playing with Magic Systems.

Consider this:

All spells must take the trigger advantage. All spells must take the focus (spellbook) and extra time limitations. This creates a D&D like system where wizards actually prepare the spell ahead of time using their spellbooks. They then speak the trigger (and gesture/use additional material components) to trigger the spell. If the "trigger" is difficult or time consuming, you may want to alter the cost of the trigger - although it should still be an advantage.

I would suggest that the trigger include circumstances such as the presence of aether - so the spell doesn't work in its absence.

You will want to consider imposing limits on how many spells a wizard can "rack" (have prepared to trigger) at any time. (It might be based on 1 spell per X INT. Or it might be based on a Custom Perk/Talent/Skill - 1 spell per 1 or 2 points spent on the Perk?Talent/Skill).

To simulate the fatigue of gathering aether, consider adding a mandatory limitation: Side Effect: END Drain (with a delayed recovery) - happens every time the spell is cast.

Depending on how much you drain and what the delay on recovery is, you can have more or less fatigue. When END is gone, perhaps it takes STUN - you can consider that.

To simulate the places where spells are easily cast - give the place an Independant, Immovable Focus (constant?, 0 End, AE?) END heal that offsets the spell's drain - triggered by casting the spell.

To simulate the places where spells are hard to cast - it is another independent immovable focus etc. - with an END Drain triggered by someone casting a spell.

Does this help?

Dean Edgell

[Killer Shrike]

There is quite a bit of stuff in the playtest document regarding concepts that would be helpful to model this.


However, in the interests of being helpful, here are some suggestions:


Use a Multipower.

Make all slots take RSR.

Take a Susceptibility: Must study spells periodically (set time frame) or take penalties to the RSR used by the Multipower. Thus, the longer they go without studying, the worse it gets. This may work out to be a Limitation of 0 points, but make it a campaign requirement and dont allow it to be 'bought off' as part of the campaign ground rules for the Magic System. Its easiest to wrap this up with the other parts of the system into a Package Deal.

Require all Powers in the Multipower to cost END.

Require all Powers in the Multipower to come from an END Reserve.

Use an END Reserve with no Recovery.


Treat 'Aether' as a global "Regeneration" to END Reserve (a Heal bought identically to Regeneration, but feeding the END Reserve; thus it happens 1/Turn (or more, but never less) automatically) used by the environment on every living thing (like light or oxygen; freely available for 0 points -- the Winds of Magic per se).

Treat 'Places with thin boundaries' as a bigger "Regeneration", or if you choose to set the default Extra Time to more than a TURN on the Regen, then perhaps just places where the Regen time is more frequent. Particularly strong spots might be both faster and larger Regenerations.


Treat 'Place with thick boundaries' as smaller and/or slower Regeneration areas.

Treat 'Place with no Aether' as no Regeneration.

Treat 'Place of Aether Absorbtion' as a Drain vs END Reserve.


As a twist on the spell book bit, you might allow a character to "Master" spells, and/or perhaps there are "True Spells". These are spells bought outside of the Multipower that dont have an RSR. The character pays full points for the power, but will never forget it and can use it at will so long as he has Aether to pay for it. Alternately you could just let them buy the RSR off the slots, but in a MPP thats usually only a point or 3; not that big of a deal.


Under this type of system, Aether is what makes a spellcaster dangerous, so an interesting variant of the Mage Duel might be based on an "Aether Absorbtion" ability (Transfer END Reserve to END Reserve, RSR, Opposed Roll, Requires Eye Contact, BOECV, etc).

Similarly, "counter magic" might be proactive instead of reactive and consist of a Suppress, Drain, Transfer or Dispel vs END Reserve; basically cut an opposing caster off at the source BEFORE they can cast a spell.

Also, you could go even further and make Aether addictive. You could give casters a dependency on it. If they are ever in a low Aether or null zone they could suffer withdrawal. You could add a variant Enraged (Euphoric) to thier package triggered by being in high Aether areas and then buy powers and characteristics with the limitation Only While in Aether Euphoria (-1/2). A caster might have +5 EGO, +5 PRE, +5 INT Only While in Aether Euphoria for example, so that in a high Aether zone there is a chance that he "gets a buzz". This could be coupled with a SE: Always Happens After Euphoria Ends to impose an equal amount in penalties for a certain amount of time, or a simple Drain vs each Characteristic.
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If you keep the default Aether "Regeneration" low (like 1/20 Minutes), spell casters will get very frugal with thier magic. If a single spell with creditable END cost takes an hour or more to recover from, casters will not be eager to blow thru thier spells. I foresee that the average caster would buy thier END Reserve up very high so that they could stockpile Aether, but it's still a costly endeavor to blow through 5 or 6 spells of any particular size. Further, casters would find thin aether spots and perch on them like there was no tomorrow. Some less powerful casters might be 'squatters' lurking around thin Aether spots to get a buzz, boost thier power, and/or take control of it. There might be a pocket industry of Aether Slaves; people that have the innate talent for casting (an END Reserve) but no actual knowledge (Skill Roll or MP); using the Aether Absorbtion ability (or 1 like it) a caster could use such a person as a battery. Similarly, Apprentices could serve the same function.

Between the size of the MPP, the skill roll, and the END Reserve there is lots of room for power variations (ie, one caster might have a monsterously high skill roll, meaning he is consistent with his magic, while another might have a big fat MPP meaning he is overwhelming with his power, whereas another might have a larger END Reserve meaning he is able to both sustain his spellcasting and is less sensitive to vagaries in the Aether Flow (because he has a surplus of Aether stored within himself), and variations in between.


YMMV....

[Killer Shrike]

Also, see the Hellgard school in the FH Playtest doc (just got that far; could have saved myself a lot of typing) . Its the same basic idea.

[Nevenall]

Here are two cents about your memorization problem.
I have mages take KSs to represent their ability to remember spells of various types.
Each spell has 2 RSR skills. One to remember and one to cast, but because the one to remember the spell is a KS the limitation value does not change.
So then you can represent spell books by giving them a KS of the appropriate type and value. 13- in fire magic. For example.
Finally, almost all mages take a limited Edetic Memory talent.
Edetic Memory (Only for Spells -1) Costs 2 Points.
Then the character will not forget any spell that he has already learned, and if he comes across a new spell he can learn it and remember it.
So, maybe that was more like three cents.
db

[Herolover]

Okay. I think I have come up with my magic system, so I am posting in a new thread. Look for it. I will name it MY FIRST NEW Fantasy HERO magic sytem.

[Thrakazog]

Originally posted by Killer Shrike
There is quite a bit of stuff in the playtest document regarding concepts that would be helpful to model this.

However, in the interests of being helpful, here are some suggestions:

Use a Multipower.

Make all slots take RSR.

>SNIP<

...whereas another might have a larger END Reserve meaning he is able to both sustain his spellcasting and is less sensitive to vagaries in the Aether Flow (because he has a surplus of Aether stored within himself), and variations in between.

YMMV....

Yikes.

This being the biggest reason why I have been so reluctant to convert my current FtF D&D game to Hero. I use a hybrid system, mostly 2nd edition AD&D, with some 1st edition rules we kept around because we liked them better, and some house rules to account for things not covered like a "Luck" stat.

It's ungainly and not pretty, and not as flexible or cinematically realistic as Hero, but we all know the rules forwards and backwards. Plus, being a spellcaster means you pick once per day from a list based off a simple chart.

I'm going to start a dungeoun crawl style PBeM game soon, and I haven't settled on a system yet. I'm itching to try FH, but the convoluted magic systems keep driving me back like Dracula from a boldly held cross.

[Markdoc]

Hate convoluted magic sytsems?

Then try this:

Give your mages a multipower. Put all spells on recoverable charges (must study spellbook to recover charge).

The number of charges can vary depending on how much of a limitation or advantage the mage wishes to put on (a low pointage mage could greatly reduce the cost of his magic multipower by only having 1 recoverable charge, for example). Each slot in the multipower is a spell and takes the same number of charges.

Spells with duration should take the continuing charge limitation/advantage

Flavour to taste with gestures, incantations, etc.

The way this works is then you generate (or lift off the net) a list of spells, which your mages can learn, scribe in their spell books, whatever.

Then, all you need to keep track of is how many spells are cast. The mage who has a multipower with 6 recoverable uses can cast:

6 uses of "transmute blood to acid"
or:
6 uses of "Befuddle"
or:
1 of "Befuddle", 2 of "Faery Gold and 3 of "Flight of the Phoenix" before he needs to sit down with the spellbook for a few hours.

Your players will like it because it gives them more flexibility than DnD, in that they can choose which spells they can use as they need them rrather than picking in advance. You'll like it because it is easy (and also because the charges thing will prevent long term spells like all-day protection spells.)

Simple, familiar, but still hero system :-)

cheers, Mark

[Thrakazog]

Originally posted by Markdoc
Simple, familiar, but still hero system :-)

Well, simpler anyway.

OK, being someone who always tells others to keep an open mind and also being one who likes to practice what he preaches, I'm going to playtest it. I'm going to write up a few PC's, hand them out to PBeM players I know and who's opinions I value, and run a very short scenario with no more than one combat and some problem-solving skill stuff.

I've read through the FH playtest manuscript and the more I read it, the more I want to try it. Hey! I should post that to the playtest list, shouldn't I?

[Alcamtar]

I like Delayed Effect for memorization. If the INT restriction on active spells gets int the way, either buy an Aid "only for memorizing spells" or buy limited INT. Personally I like having a sharp restriction on the number of active spells... you can always make memorization fairly quick.

If you are only doing memorization because you want to have spellbooks, I have a mechanic that requires spellbooks without resorting to memorization:

Each spell requires a Knowledge Skill. You can do this like GURPS with one KS per spell, or buy spells in "colleges". In any case, every time you cast the spell, you have to make a KS roll to remember it. If you fail the KS roll, you have forgotten the spell until you take time to study it again... maybe 1 minute per active point in the spell.

This is also nice because you can read a spell directly out of a book if you want to be sure you get it right the first time; this takes extra time (maybe 3 steps down the chart) plus light to read by. Also it's a great reason for villains to read their Spell of Earth Destruction from a giant grimoire, and also allows heroes to cast spells without spending skill points on them. ("Sure I can cast a spell to open the lock... but I'll have to look it up, and it'll take some time.")

Anyway, that's the core idea. It's easy to adjust for personal taste.

Mike