The cost of bases...

[katal3]

Alright, lets try a different tact, as this discussion has already degenerated into a round robin, neither of us is really making new points. And I’m pretty sure we’ve thoroughly jacked this thread anyway. So anyway, I’ll try to keep this brief>>>

To summarize, you don’t think characters should pay for Base Area (or that such a cost should be included in the calculations at all) because it has no direct mechanical benefit. Space is nothing more then an SFX, and as such should have absolutely no bearing on any mechanical build.

I disagree on the grounds that sufficient area is a necessity for the direct mechanical benefit, thus making it an indirect mechanical benefit. That aside, having a larger base can provide other indirect benefits which may or may not be convertible to a power construct.
In my mind this makes it partially comparable to say, Skill levels for a “Magic” skill to use your spells. The skill levels themselves are doing almost nothing; they certainly aren’t crisping your enemy. But without them you wouldn’t be able to use the powers which <i>do</I> crisp then enemy. In fact the skill itself has <I>No Direct Mechanical Benefit</I> as it is a byproduct of the RSR Limitation on another existing power construct.
An example of what I mean by a indirect benefit are pitfalls, since all they are is (literally) a tube of empty space with a sharp stop at the end, the only part of your average pitfall trap that might need a power construct is the “door” or whatever conceals the trap. (Images, only to disguise a trap) and even then a player could probably just get away with a sufficient Concealment roll during the planning stages of construction, and maybe some more complementary ones from the builders during construction.
The builder has gained a solid mechanical advantage by exploiting that short of a flight or gliding power, things usually go “ker-splat!” when they suddenly fall down long tubes with reinforced floors at the bottom. And the only thing he may have paid points for was the trick floor, which may have been as small an investment as a single roll of a 3-pt skill.

And darn, I didn’t keep it brief. Anyway that’s what I mean by buying potential, I agree that potential is only worth as much as what it’s used for, but space can be used for things that provide mechanical benefits to the character, but do not otherwise cost a dime

[Rapier]

There is something else I think we are neglecting.

If six adventurers get together on a Wednesday evening and we assume some kind of newness/low level/beginning adventurer, they aren't going to be purchasing a castle on Friday afternoon. They shouldn't be. That just, for the most part, sounds silly.

After a few game months, they can probably swing some kind of starter-base in an old inn or something. After a few game years and some sweet loot on big bad guys, I can see the adventurers upgrading to a larger base, a keep or possibly a castle.

After all, if you are set up with all the cash you need and a nice sweet base why wouldn't you retire? Retired characters don't make for a real good game!

[Mithras]

After all, if you are set up with all the cash you need and a nice sweet base why wouldn't you retire? Retired characters don't make for a real good game!

Well, the players may have goal in life and such things that makes them continue to adventure/destroy evil even if the get filthy rich..

However, my players feels they need a base of operation and i as a GM should not deny it..
Furthermore it seems to further develope the plots i can make for them..

I have gotten the most to create bases without points now, and i thank you all who have contributed to this thread (yep, even the highjackers)..

[PhilFleischmann]

I'll also try to keep this brief (and will probably fail), and yes, we have hijacked this thread.

IIn my mind this makes it partially comparable to say, Skill levels for a “Magic” skill to use your spells.

I don't find that comparable at all. The Magic Skill *is* giving you a mechanical benefit, and so are the Skill Levels for it, since they make it easier to succeed on the roll. Whether it let's you use spells that have RSR or perform power stunts, you are getting a game-mechanical benefit.

An example of what I mean by a indirect benefit are pitfalls, since all they are is (literally) a tube of empty space with a sharp stop at the end, the only part of your average pitfall trap that might need a power construct is the “door” or whatever conceals the trap.

However you build it (or any other kind of trap), you pay for the trap itself, not for the space it takes up. What is the game-mechanical difference between a pit trap that causes people who fail to notice the trap to take, say 3d6 K in falling damage (sharp spikes at the bottom), and an arrow trap that does 3d6 K to those who fail to notice the trap? If one costs more in character points simply because it takes up more area, then one SFX is penalized over another.

After all, if you are set up with all the cash you need and a nice sweet base why wouldn't you retire? Retired characters don't make for a real good game!

This is also a good point. A rich person who lives in a castle probably isn't going to go "adventuring." However, if the PCs get to that point, the campaign can take a new tone. They are no longer adventurers, but leaders. They'll have to deal with new kinds of adventures and conflicts: politics, war, peasant uprisings, intrigue, etc. There can be plenty of interesting new challenges to face for former adventurers who establish a castle stronghold.

[katal3]

Eh, we could continue this argument til the world fell down around us and neither of us is likely to change our mind before then, so lets just agree to disagree on this one.

[PhilFleischmann]

No problem. I'm not really trying to convince you. I prefer clarity to agreement.

[Eosin]

This is also a good point. A rich person who lives in a castle probably isn't going to go "adventuring." However, if the PCs get to that point, the campaign can take a new tone. They are no longer adventurers, but leaders. They'll have to deal with new kinds of adventures and conflicts: politics, war, peasant uprisings, intrigue, etc. There can be plenty of interesting new challenges to face for former adventurers who establish a castle stronghold.

Adventuring starts with owning land and defending your tenants. Go Birthright.