FRed Rewrite

[Citizen Keen]

Eventually, DOJ is going to have to make a new print of FRed. Not a new version, and not a reprint, but a new print. They'll have to include the errata, and other small details.

So, what do you want to see? Don't ask for rules changes, or anything like that. The rules have to be 100% compatible with the rules that currently exist. But if there is an example power that you hate, or a rule that needs to be better explained, or art piece that HAS to go, add to this post.

I'll start:

I'd like the chapters to be listed at the top of the pages, so it's easier to open the book and know where I am.

-cK

[Lord Liaden]

Originally posted by Citizen Keen
I'd like the chapters to be listed at the top of the pages, so it's easier to open the book and know where I am.

-cK

Excellent suggestion, which I've seen others bring up and which I agree with.

My further requests are small: I'd like to see an index of all the Power Advantages, Adders and Limitations, including ones which are currently only mentioned in a particular Power's description, so you could go to one section of the book to look them up. The existing index in FREd is a marvel, but not a lot of help if you don't know the name of what you're looking for.

I'd like to see the "Genre by Genre" document as an additional chapter, preferably with character artwork. The lack of genre advice and sample characters is a major detriment to new players and GMs who want to start running games just from the main book, which they are supposed to be able to do.

Other than correcting errors and maybe a bit of clarification based on issues which have been raised since 5E came out (none of which are glaring enough to come to my mind at the moment), I don't think the book would require any more substantive changes than these. It really is a very fine work.

[TheEmerged]

A small layout trick -- "tabs" along the side, either printed or cut out (like many Bibles use). I suspect the "cutting" would be prohibitively expensive, but even something for one to know that a chapter begins "here" just by looking at the side would help.

[Snarf]

I don't know the acronyms yet, but I'm assuming FRed stands for Hero System 5'th Edition based on these responses.

I'd like to see more written about naked power advantages, at least 3 times as much material as there is now, to make it very specific and clear. I was trying to design a super-power based on knives but both examples of knives in the book were technically wrong. I finally found the recommended way to build it in the errata, using what I think is a naked power advantage. Actually, I would like to see how every weapon in 5'th edition was built, or at least one of each type of weapon, if it doesn't take up too much space.

[Tim]

Originally posted by Snarf
I don't know the acronyms yet, but I'm assuming FRed stands for Hero System 5'th Edition based on these responses.

I goes back to before 5th came out. Someone asked Steve what they should call the new tome as BBB (Big Black Book) was already in use for 4th (Big BLUE Book).
Steve responded to the effect of "You can call it Fred for all I care, so long as you buy it." (NOT a direct quote!)
It stuck and someone later came up with the Acronym of Fifth Rules EDition.

TimS.
If I got any details wrong, someone please correct me.

[Aroooo]

As a few others have mentioned, I'd like to see a) at least an index of all the Advantages and Limitations, or better, b) all the Advantages and Limitations written in the Advantages or Limitations chapters. I find it very confusing now that these are scattered through out the book now.

But I realize thats a lot to ask on just a reprint, so a sidebar listing in the advantages and limitations chapters with page numbers shoud not be too hard to add.

Aroooo

[Yamo]

I really hope someone from HERO Games/DoJ is paying attention to this thread, because I think there are a few things a revised 5th edition book would really NEED. They are:

1. All current eratta. Obviously.

2. Chapter headers at the tops of each page.

3. The host of Power options that should have been a part of the basic rules, but weren't. I'm talking about things like No Turn Mode for Movement Powers, Affects Porous for Telekinesis, multiple and mobile perception points for Clairsentience and rules for moving Continuous AoE Powers (a Mobile adder, perhaps?).

4. I'd like to see all of the martial arts maneuvers from UMA.

5. More discussion of playing not just Heroic and Superheroic, but Normal-level games! Some of us love to run adventures in genres like horror and gritty modern day action/espionage where the PCs don't start with triple-digit point totals.

6. The Genre-By-Genre document. A roleplaying game without character creation examples? Not acceptable in this day and age. Or even in the last few days and ages. I'm guessing smaller type and the better layout that's apparent in recent HERO products will make the space available.

7. Please, please, PLEASE ditch the godawful Poser-type digital art that accompanies entries like Killing Attack, Hand-To-Hand. That shoddy garbage is totally unworthy of inclusion in a professional gaming product.

8. Also, the book needs to come out QUICK. I want my uber-FREd, dammit!

[Kintara]

The sense groups. That gave me pause. The freebies from each group (Edit: The Simulated Sense Rule, that's what it's called) aren't explicitly listed in the book, correct? I think that needs clarity.

[Christougher]

Originally posted by Yamo
4. I'd like to see all of the martial arts maneuvers from UMA.

I doubt that will happen, otherwise why have the UMA? On a similar note, I'm suprised nobody has mentioned fixing the listings of martial arts maneuvers. IE: so you can go to a single page for cost and effects like you could in 4th.

[BobGreenwade]

Me, I'll go along with Yamo's first two suggestions, and that's it. (Well, maybe number 6. Maybe.) Fifth Edition should remain Fifth Edition, with a minimum of changes that would cause any text to land on a different page than in the first print run.

Now, I do think that some of these other things could go well into Sixth Edition, if and when Steve ever approves such a thing. Mostly, some of the new power options and campaign options (such as Yamo's mention of Normal-level games) would be good candidates. A few of the new rules ideas from Digital Hero (thinking mostly of Steve's Create Object power and Dave's new Area Of Effect options) would be good for that too.

I do think that it would be cool to have a book gathering together all of the new rules options from the genre and Ultimate books (and USPD). I wouldn't include any of the genre/archetype tricks that don't involve new rules options (especially the "this is how you can build this using the existing rules" stuff), but having a book with things like, say, the No Turn Mode Advantage, the options for Telekinesis and Clairsentience from USPD, the Area Of Effect options and diceless combat from Digital Hero, a lot of the new Perks and Talents, and such would be a wonderful utility for Hero System GMs -- especially those who like to mix genres.

[tiger]

Originally posted by BobGreenwade
I do think that it would be cool to have a book gathering together all of the new rules options from the genre and Ultimate books (and USPD). I wouldn't include any of the genre/archetype tricks that don't involve new rules options (especially the "this is how you can build this using the existing rules" stuff), but having a book with things like, say, the No Turn Mode Advantage, the options for Telekinesis and Clairsentience from USPD, the Area Of Effect options and diceless combat from Digital Hero, a lot of the new Perks and Talents, and such would be a wonderful utility for Hero System GMs -- especially those who like to mix genres.

I agree..I'd love to have it all in one book or a PDF. I'm in no hurry to have them redo FRED and have to buy another set of rules for the system. I don't think there is any call for that yet. Just a nice book/PDF would be fine by me

[LadyChaos]

I'm lazy. Therefore, I'd like to see the disads and ads multiplier table from the BBB included.

[Tech]

Steve mentioned in another forum that he has no intention at this point of coming out with a 6th edition Rulebook. (I hope I'm not misquoting ya, Steve.)

That out of the way, it's a small thing, quite small actually but I'd like to see an easier way to find the formula to convert inches in movement to MPH or KPH. It's currently split between the bottom right column of one page and the top left column of the next.

[BobGreenwade]

Originally posted by Tech
Steve mentioned in another forum that he has no intention at this point of coming out with a 6th edition Rulebook. (I hope I'm not misquoting ya, Steve.)

I tend to agree with him on that score. In any event, it's way too early to consider 6th edition as anything more than theoretical or hypothetical.

[Derek Hiemforth]

Originally posted by BobGreenwade
In any event, it's way too early to consider 6th edition as anything more than theoretical or hypothetical.

1st Edition: 1981. 2nd Edition: 1982. Elapsed time: 1 year.

2nd Edition: 1982. 3rd Edition: 1984. Elapsed time: 2 years.

3rd Edition: 1984. 4th Edition: 1989. Elapsed time: 5 years.

4th Edition: 1989. 5th Edition: 2002. Elapsed time: 13 years.

At this rate of increase, the elapsed time between 5th and 6th Editions would be 31 years. Check back in 2033.