Rule of X ideas?

[Chuk]

Does anyone have any guidelines for a good Rule of X for Hero?

This is spurred by a discussion on Pyramid -- one of the posters was coming from Fuzion and wondering if there was anything similar for Hero 5th. I used to have a GM that did something like it and I was curious as to what people here do to make sure their combats are balanced. Heroic and/or super-heroic.

[Trebuchet]

In my campaign we use a guideline of SPEED + Damage Class <= 20. This makes for fast martial artists who don't hit as hard as the slower but more powerful bricks and energy projectors.

Even more important than a Rule of X is communication between the players so they don't step on each other's "schtick". On my team of 7 heroes we have 3 martial artists and they are all very different from each other in abilities and personality.

[Derek Hiemforth]

Without meaning to sound like a jerk, the best advice I can offer about a Rule of X is, "Don't use one." No formula will prevent all abuse, and any formula will end up excluding something that actually isn't abusive. You don't need a Rule of X. You need a GM who has a clear vision of how he or she wants things to relate and work in their game world, and players who want to participate in that. If you have those, you're set.

This doesn't mean that all "caps" are bad. But trying to have a single "master formula" that balances everything has never worked, in my experience.

[Keneton]

Sounding like Aaron Nimzovitch there for a sec!

Please see DH#3 for The Effectiveness Rating. This is a 12 years playtested system that has evolved to rate and control campaigns in numerous states and with extremely varying power levels. It has yet to fail!

We use a cap of 100 for player characters on the ER. The Spreadsheet is availlable for free in the Fee Stuff section of this board. The URL is given below.

http://herogame.dans.cust.servlets.n...ff/csheets.htm

I accept e-mails from players with ER questions and try to be quick on responses. If you have a chance to read the article, you will find the mechanics sound.

I am not stating that this sytem replaces a proactive GM, but I ma saying that this tool makes GM rulings sound and fair from a mathmatical standpoint and not arbitrary.

Anyone who knows me will attest to the soundness of my approach and I highly reccomend it.

[JSenecal]

Digital Hero #3 has an effectivness rating that is the most comprehensive rule of X I've ever seen. The Excel spreedsheet for calcuating it is here: http://herogames.com/FreeStuff/chara...F%20Rating.xls

I've collected several others that are much simpler, though they have know weaknesses that a GM needs to watch for.

[Keneton]

Thanks for the plug J. I credit my friends in TN; Mitch Mike Ron, John, Steve x2, and Joe for helping playtest the ER. Mike was the math freak that created this monster, and I am the author of the article. It is a pretty boring read (as most math heavy studd is) but can and does properly rate the combat effectiveness of any character.

We use a cap of 100 for our campaign with a veteran bonus set at 100 ep. For most starting campaigns I might adjsut the veteran bonus to 50. Mitch has a 100 ER character with nearly 2000 earned ep!

When a sytem allows you to balance 2300 point characters, you know it is good!

[GradonSilverton]

Why not keep it simple and just limit a active point cost to say....35?

[Old Man]

Because then you get weak characters that cannot go desolid and cannot get full life support

[GradonSilverton]

Sure they can....they just cant go Desolid while effecting the real world with the 6d6 Area Effect AP Ego Blast...

Bump the Active point cost up if you desire...

But this is a simple way to maintain a playablility level without players being able to destroy balance...

[Keneton]

How could you have that 90 point power you gave as an example if the active point cost was limited to 35!?

6d6 AP Ego attack = 90 active!
How could they go desolid (40 active minimum?) or have full life support (45)

Who wants a chracter that has a max attack of 7d6 normal?

[Ndreare]

The system IO use for my games is

Rule of X (Combined Offence and Deffence with no more than a 50% Variance between the two.)
Activepoints in attack + (OCV*5) + Active Points in Speed= offensive x

Active Points in ALL Defence + (DCV*5)= Deffencive X

Example:
Super Heroes Rule of X =400
Strength 60, Speed 4, OCV 8= 140 Offensive X
Armor 30 rPD 20 rED, 10 Flash Deffence, 20 Body, 60 stun and 5 DCV= 210 Deffensive CombatValue
Well with in the 400 limit.

This allows character that are primaraly deffecive or offensive, does not penalize the character who is neer immune to energy with a giant penalty as if he had high deffences all the way around, and works well for mages or psys becouse it counts their values for mental deffences and powers not just dice of effect.

I have used this system since forth (Even before "Fuzion" was know to me) and it always worked fine.

Fantasy: 200
Heroic Black Ops: 300
Super Heroic: 400
Cosmic: 600
I have never tested it above cosmic level heroes.

[Keneton]

So the strength 60 = 60 active points, but what if he has 50" of movement and +10 levels with move through and can crank out a 28d6 movethough at the same 8 OCV. Your formula leaves a HUGE hole. I am not trying to sound critical, but you leave open all types of things like find weakness, movement, fast draw, desolidification, and damage shileds to name a few.

Also lets be very reasonale and imagine that the sytem could allow for a 250 Offensive and a 150 Defensive. For the offensive I take. . .

20 OCV, 8 Speed, 4 1/2d6 HKA (which I can easily push to crank out 5+1 Killing!)
My DCV Max is also 20 with 18 Defense Both ways and 14 points of exotic defenses covering flash, mental and resistant 10/10.

This character would grease Mechanon inside of a turn, and is easily fare under your system.

[Chaosliege]

Originally posted by Derek Hiemforth

This doesn't mean that all "caps" are bad. But trying to have a single "master formula" that balances everything has never worked, in my experience.

I agree. It is obviouse from the fact that you've all found holes in methods, that using a "rule of X" is just as much work for the GM as just looking at the character and saying"does that realy need to be that high?" I personally would never put that much enphisis on a rule. If it makes sense and isn't too powerful, it's good. If during the game you find that it actually is to powerful and disrupts game ballance, then have the player change it. NEVER let a player play a character you haven't looked at. That's the "rule" we use.

[Keneton]

CL

My system does work. I am not belittling others to get rid of systems, nor does my system replace common sense and a good GM, but it has survived playtesting and publication to work well.

The main reason we developed the ER was to allow for multiple GM's. In our group all of the players are over 30 years old with REAL lives. We need to share GM responsibility. I am the main GM, but others often write games. We need a system that makes play balanced with multiple GM's without being arbitrary.

Even Marvel had the bullpen for years, and the result was a more balanced power level than found in silver age DC.

[GradonSilverton]

Kenton said "How could you have that 90 point power you gave as an example if the active point cost was limited to 35!?

6d6 AP Ego attack = 90 active!
How could they go desolid (40 active minimum?) or have full life support (45)

Who wants a chracter that has a max attack of 7d6 normal?"

I realized after my posting the I did not clarify this correctly... If you want to allow for Desolid, Life Support, Ect. put the Max for that Amount. If you want someone to Posses the 90 power, then your Max is 90 Active points. What I'm saying is utilize what Hero already has to create your Rule of X.

Dont bring in more math and make character creation even more drawn out. Use whats there for you.