"Beware the generosity of Kings" - A warning

[TheQuestionMan]

The Companions are the Heroes of the hour. They banished the Demon Lord, dispelling the Zombie Army and terrifying the Orcs Hordes. They overshadowed the Champions of Caithness and won for themselves a new place in the peoples legends and songs.

In the process they may have become too powerful. The King looks upon the Heroes the most dangerous threat to the Nobility in his time. They are all commoners and mostly not human.

Sir Cat Elendil was Knighted for his bravery and actions against the Orcs at Castle Defiant and the Zarak's Southern Gate. In the siege of Redhall he strode the battle field like a pagan god of war. He has no ties to the Land, the Nobility, or the Church. He is an Adventurer and not controllable.

Master Cafter Dain matches him. He powered his way through Orcs, Olag Hai, and Zombies with devastating effects. he bears the Dwarven Axe of Kings and struck the blow that destroyed the Demon Lord. He is named Champion of the Dwarven King Nain, but continues to adventure.

Fingolfin a young elf managed to not only survive the fiercest fighting and held the line. A Wizard of some skill he relied on his physical skills over his magic.

Arteasian another young elf who supported her Companions and stayed with them through the thickest and bloodiest fighting seen in centuries. (Two Baronies where destroyed and another crippled)

Kraypike acted as support Wizard and back ranker.

Ismael, the saracen is the most dangerous of them all. A Rogue, Wizard, and Warrior he had a dramatic affect on the battle field where ever he stood.



How does a King control such individuals?

QM

[Dale A. Ward]

If the king has holdings in a far off land (or, can pretend that he does), he could send the adventurers to act as vice-regents and protectors of the king's foreign holdings. The old adage "out of sight, out of mind" pretty much sums up how their fame will fare.

Just be sure to play it up as a reward instead of a cleverly concealed banishment!

[OddHat]

Sir Cat Elendil was Knighted for his bravery and actions against the Orcs at Castle Defiant and the Zarak's Southern Gate. In the siege of Redhall he strode the battle field like a pagan god of war. He has no ties to the Land, the Nobility, or the Church. He is an Adventurer and not controllable.

Get him drunk, "mysterious" assassins kill him in his sleep. If by some miracle he survives, the Brotherhood have a contract for his death on file. No one escapes the Brotherhood forever.

Alternative: Appoint him as a Knight-Judge, send him out to spend the rest of his days deciding which pig belongs to which farmer in the most worthless part of the kingdom, tell him it's a "secret mission" to discover a non-existant danger growing near the tiny village of Piggerton.


Master Cafter Dain matches him. He powered his way through Orcs, Olag Hai, and Zombies with devastating effects. he bears the Dwarven Axe of Kings and struck the blow that destroyed the Demon Lord. He is named Champion of the Dwarven King Nain, but continues to adventure.

Already the property of another king and not really his problem. Have a worthless young noble you dislike pick a fight with him and get killed. Send a messenger to the Dwarf King saying his champion has killed your cousin, but out of respect for his Dwarven Majesty you'd just like him recalled to the Dwarflands rather than executed.

Fingolfin a young elf managed to not only survive the fiercest fighting and held the line. A Wizard of some skill he relied on his physical skills over his magic.

An ambitious young female noble you control tries to seduce him. If she fails or succeeds, the result is the same; the Brotherhood assassinates her and dumps the body in his rooms. Either dump him in a cell for raping and killing a Human woman or banish him with "deep regret", suggesting that your political enemies framed him to get to you. The Brotherhood then finishes him off.

Arteasian another young elf who supported her Companions and stayed with them through the thickest and bloodiest fighting seen in centuries. (Two Baronies where destroyed and another crippled)

Female non-human, no real threat. Treat her with high honor and try to marry her off to a minor noble who lives someplace far away. If she doesn't like it, she can leave. If worse comes to worse, the Church accuses her of being a Whore of the Demon Lord; tell her you'll "protect" her but she must flee, pretend you're sorry to see the companions taken from you, maybe claim that the non-existant threat in Pggerton is behind it, or blame a court advisor you absolutely control (for easy framing if things go bad). If she refuses to go, let the Church burn her. No loss.

Kraypike acted as support Wizard and back ranker.

No threat at all. Give him a nice appointment as the school master of Piggerton and tell him about the "threat". Off he goes.

Ismael, the saracen is the most dangerous of them all. A Rogue, Wizard, and Warrior he had a dramatic affect on the battle field where ever he stood.

Any of the methods above, from simple assassination to a fake mission to a frame.


Alternative: Commission a boat, crew it with ruffians, get a Captain who looks good and is a complete and total moron. Tell the whole gang of "heroes" about a mysterious continent and a fake prophesy. Load them all aboard just before storm season. Poison in the second cask of Rum, maps with hilariously wrong information, and a small payment to some pirates. They'll be poisoned, the ship will sink in a storm, they'll be lost beyond the edge of the maps, or the pirates will get them on the way out or back. If they survive, give them a big dinner and send them off again.

[Dale A. Ward]

And, I thought I was being clever! That deserves some rep!

[TheQuestionMan]

They have been the target of the Assassin's Guilds of Yrth on several occassions and by three different Game Masters (Shared Campaign World). Quite literally the only way for the Assassin to succed is to kill the PC instantly, by passing paranoid Adventurers with Danger Sense, High Level Senses, Spells of Protection and Warding, constant Watches and the odd Luck.

I do not mean to kill the Character(s) out right, but provide for them a challenge that makes the game entertaining and draws them back in. The Characters have become cynical as they have grown into the Heroes they are now.

Sir Cat Elendil would be the most likely to fall for the seduction (Lecherous yah know).

Master Crafter Dain could easilly be side tracked this way.

Master Ismael would enjoy this immensely (but never show it.)

Mistress Arteasian would be very susceptable to that.

Master Fingolfin is EXTREMELY shy around women.

Master Kraypike would see one of his Pranks backfire politically.

Master Rene would mirror Master Ismael's reaction. A Fencing Master who is vulnerable to large weapons.



What I guess I am really looking for is; How would the Aristocracy react to a group of powerful meddling Heroes without loyalties to any Faction?



Cheers

QM

[OddHat]

They have been the target of the Assassin's Guilds of Yrth on several occassions and by three different Game Masters (Shared Campaign World). Quite literally the only way for the Assassin to succed is to kill the PC instantly, by passing paranoid Adventurers with Danger Sense, High Level Senses, Spells of Protection and Warding, constant Watches and the odd Luck.

High powered Heroes get very skilled Assassins. You have infinite character poiints to work with, and complete control of the environment. You can kill the entire party with a group of 100 point assassins or make the Assassin Viperia with a slight makeover if you feel like it.

I do not mean to kill the Character(s) out right, but provide for them a challenge that makes the game entertaining and draws them back in.

Fair enough. Boat ride or other fake quest then, or the frame up.

The Characters have become cynical as they have grown into the Heroes they are now.

Of course they have. The King's reaction to their great victory is to plot betrayal. By now they probably expect that sort of thing.

What I guess I am really looking for is; How would the Aristocracy react to a group of powerful meddling Heroes without loyalties to any Faction?

Only options are recruit, ignore and plot against. Recruit and plot against can work at the same time, and kings of the battlefield can't (and may not care to) fight rumors, gossip, and carefully staged humiliations. That said, make court life a living hell and the players may just quit.

I'd work on giving them friends and enemies at court as long as I left them there. On the "friends" side, put the genuine admirer, the scheming old woman who sees one of the PCs as good son in law material, the veteran who fought in the battle the PCs won and feels true loyalty, the seductive married woman who wants another notch in her bed post. On the enemies side, the angry young man who resents "peasants" getting above themselves, the traditionalist General who feels upstaged, the scheming courtier who poses as a friend while trying to aim the PCs at his own enemies, and the humiliated husband of the married woman (preferably a good and honest man with a temper, so that his death at the hands of the PC who slept with his wife will mean something).

After a few sessions of this, your players will be glad to go off on their next quests.

If the group is too powerful to challenge in combat and doesn't want to do courtly intrigue, you can always give them their own kingdoms and start fresh with a new group of characters.

[Eosin]

If they were English they would be honored with an appointment as the Marshal of Brittany or Ireland (depending on which was the most troublesome at the time). They would recieve 1/3 of the men needed to quell the unrest and half the funds to pay them - along with a quaint note from the royal exquelcher specifing that additional monies would need to come from the purse of the marshal barring royal appointment (meaning never but plenty of bribes could go towards the affair).

Use the same idea. Distant lands, money draining war, too few troops, and terrible morale. At stake is the reputation of the characters (either positive for success or negative for failure). Even the baddest monkey in the land isn't much threat to the king if they can't afford to pay any troops.

[Killer Shrike]

All the above is very antagonistic.

It sounds like what you are really saying is that your PC's have become too powerful for their (immediate) setting. However, it sounds like your players have "earned" their place as preeminant heroes, so attacking their stature in extreme fashions out of hand is really something of a downer, or punishment for being too successful.

Rather than punish the players by screwing over characters they likely have some emotional involvement in for a problem that is basically the GM's fault -- either not scaling their advancement or the challenge level of the setting or both -- there are several tried and true methods to "load balance" and salvage the campaign, some of which are:

*Have the characters go into retirement or semi-retirement. Have the players start new characters and resume play at a lower scale. Have the retired PC's become part of the background as significant NPC's, and have the occassional cameo. After some time has passed and the current campaign is winding down, you can arrange some kind of event that requires the retired PC's, and bring some of them (whichever ones the players of are still around) back out for a curtain call.

*Change the focus of the campaign to something that the PC's arent so dominant at, like:

**Political / Machiavellian intrigue (but beware it doesnt become too underhanded and / or depraved; RE: Titus Andronicus)

**A grand Mystery / Conspiracy (but beware it doesnt become too contrived; RE: X-Files)

**A Dark version of the same setting where everything just starts falling apart and the PC's are one of the few things that can stand against whatever is causing it (although it sounds like you've already been through that)

**A war campaign (but beware it doesn't become too boring and repetitive), vs opposing nations or even (if the King and Nobles turn against them) a rebellion.

**A grand Quest that is so difficult only the mightiest heroes in the land could even _attempt_ it. (Beware the players not wanting their prized PC's to be seriously harmed)

**Have the PC's depart for some other region, kingdom, plane, or world where they are not as exceptional and / or things are more challenging for them. Continue play in the same vein as the players have previously liked, but with all new and exciting threats. (Beware you don't get stuck in a video game like leveled escalation)

**Don't make major alterations to the paradigm, but change the nature of the challenges you are presenting so that the combat acumen of the PC's is not the primary means by which they succeed or fail. (Beware you don't change too fast and set the PC's up for failure without a chance to acclimate).

**Don't do anything; if the players are taking initiatives on their own, just run with it, with maybe the occasional nudge if needed. Turn the campaign into a cause and effect simulation where the uber-powerful PC's are making the decisions, taking actions (or not taking actions) as they like, and you simply running with it, thinking thru permutations / ripples from their actions, and having the world morph accordingly. (Beware that you don't have apathetic players that are just going to sit around waiting for "the hook" rather than take the initiative)


The real question is, what direction do YOU want the campaign to go in, and would the PLAYERS enjoy the campaign if it moved in that direction? Find the answer to that and you have a path to take.

[Eosin]

You must spread some REP around before giving it to Killer Shrike again.

Superb.

[Kabluey]

All the above is very antagonistic.

I agree. And it all also supposes that the king actually wants to do away with the group, either by forcing them out of his kingdom or by killing them. But if they are truly that powerful, the king might decide that they're worth keeping around. He just may instead want to have some control over them.

One of the most common ways for a king in a feudal milieu is through the grant of a fief. He can give them some land, with specific requirements for service that they owe him. If he's worried about their loyalty, then give them 2 fiefs - but in very different parts of the kingdom. That makes rebellion more difficult. It was a common tactic used by historical monarchs.

And for the service requirements, it doesn't have to be the standard contract of so many days of military service. The contract can have anything that the lord and vassal agree to. For instance, it could include a provision for the group to act as agents of the king for diplomatic missions or espionage.

As an added bond of loyalty, throw in a royal marriage. Maybe not to a daughter of the king, but perhaps to one of the king's extended clan. Again, a very historically common method of forming alliances. It would be a huge boon for the characters, giving their families a claim to the throne for later generations (though whether the players would view it this way is another question, of course).

Just some ideas for a less antagonistic approach.

[TheQuestionMan]

Here's wishing Killer Shrike was my GM

The the Camapign world has 18yrs worth of continuity and we have retired and semi retired characters who sometimes make appearances. The problem lies with the fact that we have character of varying points and motivations, but essentially loyal to each other.

The Politcal Areana has become the domain of semi retired characters. Sir Errandis Menelvagor of Lavallee and Baron Imric of Lorian. Both involved with Dukes, Princes, and an Emperor.

Currently the Megalosian Empire is involved in a Civil War, the Principality of Araterre has been Conquored by Al Wazif. The Prince of Cardiel has survived a series of assassination attempts by unknown authors using unknown magics. Caithness is recovering from a Orc Invasion.

Bilit Isle is home to Tzuniknan, a Cthulhu like Horror that the Heroes managed to temporarily contain. Although at the cost of their sanity. (Mental Disadvantages)

The Nomad Lands is home to NEW Blood Sacrifice Magics and Gestalt Warriors involved in the Megalosian Civil War.

The Djinn Lands (Mysterious City States ruled by powerful Wizards) is implicated in allying with the Orcs.

Suhud has been quiet since the Suhudese Fire Drill, but I do have plans should the opportunity present itself.

Al-Haz - Plague is Geb Al-Din (Yrth's Mecca)



Eighteen Years of Camapign History and Continuity to come...

QM

[sbarron]

The Companions are the Heroes of the hour. They banished the Demon Lord, dispelling the Zombie Army and terrifying the Orcs Hordes. They overshadowed the Champions of Caithness and won for themselves a new place in the peoples legends and songs.

In the process they may have become too powerful. The King looks upon the Heroes the most dangerous threat to the Nobility in his time. They are all commoners and mostly not human.

<snip>

How does a King control such individuals?

QM

If the King is worried about the Nobility, in the sense that maybe nobles wont be in charge much longer, then he needs to either redefine what a noble is, or "discover" a noble liniege for each of the companions.

If he's more worrried about the powers that be losing power, then any of the things listed above could work.

How would the Aristocracy react to a group of powerful meddling Heroes without loyalties to any Faction?

I'd thrown in a bogus "conspiracy against the crown" plot if I weren't worried about totally turning the game on its head. Turn the heroes into villians. Clearing their name means exposing the King's work against them. Or maybe not the King, maybe his top advisor. So they could either leave for parts unknown, or risk starting a civil war to clear their names.

Another tactic would be to target something the PCs love. Do they have families? Maybe the King asks that the Companions families come to live in capitol with him...for protection. If things start to get dicey, he's got leverage. On the surface, it's a kind gesture...especially considering the spate of assasination attempts on PCs families. In reality, the accepting family members just became well kept hostages.

I'm a softy GM, though. I'd probably have a far away kingdom in dire straights hear of these heroic Companions, and send representatives asking that they come to assist. Suitable rewards for their current King to send them away, and titles, magic, wealth, whatever to the PCs. Just get them headed to parts less tame.

KSs idea about different planes is good, too. If these PCs are really up there in power, maybe their gods need champions to fight off another pantheon, or Cthulu like invaders, or in the millenial olympics. Maybe another planet that has been overrun by evil forces asks for aid. Maybe Heaven is under siege. Just get crazy.

[LordGhee]

If I was a Prince who was the subject of unknown Assassinations then I would hire one of the players (hero) to look into it and stop them.

If I was a Foreign power hiring these guys to lead an army or do a deed for me would be on the list.

I have this Dragon that is a problem.

Lord Ghee

[ghost-angel]

You don't control them.

You ask them to map the entire world and not to come back until it's done. Completely. Every little village in existance, every chunk of rock big enough for a palm tree, everything.

Should keep 'em occupied for a bit.

[LordGhee]

as a multipul GM world it will be intresting how this is handle.


Lord Ghee