Marine Corps Martial Arts Program

[Maelstrom]

Marine Corps Martial Arts Program

I think the idea that you have to attain certain ranks within the Corps to attain certain ranks within the art interesting. Could this be another limitation to balance out an art? Has this been mentioned before?

[Vondy]

I think its ludicrous.

[Markdoc]

Yeah, I can't see telling my players they can't buy "Offensive strike" because their characters are not commissioned

cheers, Mark

[sbarron]

There is some precident in more traditional martial arts schools, where only the best or most dedicated students get taught the "Five-Point-Palm Exploding Heart Technique" type stuff. Not the same as a promotion/learn new moves structure, but similar.

[Shaft]

On the other hand, not being able to attain a certain belt until a certain rank had been obtained would be typical of the military bureaucracy:

"PFC, if you want to learn the basic strike, you're going to have to make Lance Corporal first."

"But I can't make Lance Corporal until I learn this maneuver... "

"Yeah, sorry. It was so much simpler when all you had to do in this job was run and shoot."

[Shaft]

I think its ludicrous.

Ludicrous... military... where's the contradiction?

[Killer Shrike]

Hmm...this looks pretty silly to me...

When I was in the Corps we trained in the LINE System. Apparantly they switched to this new program in 2002 because the LINE system didnt have any non-lethal techniques which is seen as a problem in a policing mode.

Of course, I'd look at that and say that...well, yeah...Marines are supposed to kill, not be police.

[Killer Shrike]

The only thing about this that strikes me as total bs is the rank requirements for belts.

There are exceptions but most Gunny's and MSgts are a bit out of shape, middle aged men with somewhere around 20 years and up of hard living and mediocre health care under their belt. In a fist fight, they'd get completely thrashed by a rock hard lightning fast private right out of basic that knows how to fight.

Dont get me wrong, there were a few "old men" of the Marine Corps that could put a beating on you, but they were the exception.

Same thing with the upper echelon of officers. They are OLD, and mister myagi ancient chinese master mystique aside, old generally does not equal more capable when it comes to physical endeavors. I mean, I know for sure that my 22 year old self could beat the heck out of my 32 year old self, and im sure its only going to get worse when im 42 and 52.

What it really is, some well intentioned moron probably brought up the idea of ranking belts, which could be incorporated into uniform attire. Martinets love that crap. Cub scout patches warm their little idiotic hearts. But then the idea crept in that a mere PFC who happens to be a bad ass fighter might master the fighting style and then -- GASP -- get to wear a higher ranked belt than their "superiors". Obviously that could not be allowed to happen.

Thus is introduced the rank requirements. If it didnt go down very much like that, I would be very much suprised.

[sbarron]

When I was in the Corps we trained in the LINE System. Apparantly they switched to this new program in 2002 because the LINE system didnt have any non-lethal techniques which is seen as a problem in a policing mode.

I learned the LINE system, too. According to the website, the lack of offensive options was also seen as a drawback to LINE training. I guess this new system will fix that...

I was really pretty disappointed in my H-to-H training in the Corps. I hope this system is a little more comprehensive.

[sbarron]

Is this the section everyone is talking about here?

20. Why are there rank prerequisites for earning the higher belts?

Tan-entry level training.

Gray–no rank requirement.

Green–Lance Corporal and above.

Brown–Corporal and above.

Black–Sergeant and above.

Rank prerequisites are tied to the belt ranking system to ensure Marines possess the maturity, judgment and moral character required for advancement. This will ensure a Marine develops the physical skills to make them lethal warriors, they also develop a commensurate level of maturity and self-discipline. In addition, once a Marine attains Green belt or higher, the Marine is eligible to attend the Instructor Course, and later as a Black belt, the Instructor-Trainer Course. These two special qualifications within the belt ranking system require that the individual not only have mastered the belt requirements, but have the ability to teach as well. Teaching the principles of the mental, physical and character disciplines requires an understanding that cannot be grown overnight, but is a product of time and experience. The same years of training and guidance necessary to develop the Marine martial artist parallels the training and guidance required to develop future Marine Corps leaders. Thus the Marine Corps rank system and the martial arts belt system are inextricably linked.

Because if so, I'm going to go against the grain and say that I think this is a sound policy. You only teach the higher level stuff to guys that have spent some time in the Corps, and that will probably stick around.

Plus, wearing a different color t-shirt or belt doesn't mean you can kick anyones butt, anyway. You still have to do it.

[Teflon Billy]

Is this the section everyone is talking about here?

Because if so, I'm going to go against the grain and say that I think this is a sound policy. You only teach the higher level stuff to guys that have spent some time in the Corps, and that will probably stick around.

Plus, wearing a different color t-shirt or belt doesn't mean you can kick anyones butt, anyway. You still have to do it.

Also, these aren't exactly that much of a rank requirement.

Sergeant is NOT that hard to achieve.

I'm willing to bet the bigger barrier to getting the higher belt is going to be laziness and the individual not staying in practice since he's not going to be able to get instant gratification of belt rank.

Which kind of goes along with the "maturity" requirement that the USMC is looking for.

Seems perfectly reasonable to me.

TB

[Killer Shrike]

Here's (more or less) what they taught when I was in: USMC Close Combat

[Killer Shrike]

Also, these aren't exactly that much of a rank requirement.

Sergeant is NOT that hard to achieve.

I'm willing to bet the bigger barrier to getting the higher belt is going to be laziness and the individual not staying in practice since he's not going to be able to get instant gratification of belt rank.

Which kind of goes along with the "maturity" requirement that the USMC is looking for.

Seems perfectly reasonable to me.

TB

Rank might be more fluid right now as we are at war, but actually Sergeant is reasonalby difficult to acheive in the Corps. Many Marines serve their initial enlistment and get out as PFC's, LCpl's, and Cpl's. Or at least thats how it was when I served.

[Killer Shrike]

I learned the LINE system, too. According to the website, the lack of offensive options was also seen as a drawback to LINE training. I guess this new system will fix that...

I was really pretty disappointed in my H-to-H training in the Corps. I hope this system is a little more comprehensive.

I can't see the LINE system as having a lack of offensive options. Its basically almost all offense.

The general techniques are actually pretty effective if executed correctly; they served me well on a few occasions. My main disappointment w/ the HtH training was that it wasnt an ongoing concern. Most Marines just got the basics of it in boot and MCT and that was it.

[Teflon Billy]

Rank might be more fluid right now as we are at war, but actually Sergeant is reasonalby difficult to acheive in the Corps. Many Marines serve their initial enlistment and get out as PFC's, LCpl's, and Cpl's. Or at least thats how it was when I served.

I haven't seen any change in the promotion system on the Army side of the house.

Though they did just recently wave the PT test requirement and Weight standards for deployed troops.

Other than that the only advantage that deployed troops would have is they're more likely to be recommended, and more of them have Awards from their deployment giving them more promotion points. That just makes them more competetive, the guy who hasn't been deployed who has hussle can do just as well if not better.

In the Army, 36 months time in service, 12 months time in grade is what you need for Sergeant (waiverable down to 18 months time in service, or 6 months time in grade)

We, however, don't have meritorious promotions in the same way that the Corps does.

Unless you really impress some General officer and he chooses to reward you, there is not meritorious promotion mechanism in the Army.

TB