Mutants and Masterminds vs. HERO

[Lord Mhoram]

Absolutely nothing, actually. The Open Game Licenses is perpetual and cannot "go belly up" in that it cannot be revoked: Open Content is Open Content for good.

Heya Steve. Nice to see you on this side of the fence.

One of the things I thought was brilliant was that there is a clause in the OGL licesnse that says you can use any version of the licesnce when publishing under it. So if WotC tried to change the OGL licence, then everyone could just use an earlier version.

Like the man said, once it is open, it stays open.

[Sketchpad]

Absolutely nothing, actually. The Open Game Licenses is perpetual and cannot "go belly up" in that it cannot be revoked: Open Content is Open Content for good.

You may be confusing the OGL with the d20 STL (System Trademark License), the one that lets you use the "d20" logo on products (which basically is intended to say "compatible with D&D" although that's not always the case). The d20 logo is a trademark of Wizards of the Coast and they can choose to revoke the d20 STL because of that.

However, since M&M doesn't use the d20 STL (and never has), only the OGL, it would be unaffected by such a change.

Good to know I was always kinda curious how that one worked. I thought an OGL user had to follow the newest version of the product ... guess I read it wrong

[Hugh Neilson]

I wonder how the law would perceive that. My understanding is that it's tough to enforce a gift because the recipient did not provide any consideration. Any legal eagles care to opine on WOTC's legal position if they cancelled or modified the OGL?

[Vondy]

I'm not a legal eagle, but the OGL is an open license you are free to use, not a gift. By making use of it you agree to abide by its terms, which includes putting the text of the agreement "this product is published under..." in your product. That's an explicit act that binds you to the terms of the license on your part. At the same time, as Steve noted, its terms self-define the OGL as perpetural for those who have already made use of it. So while HASBRO might withdraw the license for use by new OGL publishers, they've already entered into an agreement with extant OGL publishers that would be hard to wiggle out of. OGL publishers seem pretty secure in that regard.

On the other hand, they might try to argue that it applies to products already published under its auspices and not to new products that were not published by the time the OGL was withdrawn. The question there becomes: what is the motive, and where is the profit? They have cash reserves to use on legal proceedings the OGL publishers dont - which is a defacto win from a court perspective - but the publicity for such a move is very bad indeed, and there isn't any profit in alienating a niche market with a reactionary fan-base. What's more, it wouldn't take much for GR (or other OGL publishers) to make some cosmetic alterations on a new version and move forward without wasting funds on law-suits.

[TheRavenIs]

Ok, I was given the core rules for Christmas by a friend. I wonder is it worth the time to learn the system. I mean I looked at the book and I like most of what I see, but the biggest thing for me is my gaming group. I have no idea if they would want to learn a new system.

Any help with giving me some solid reasons to learn the system are welcome.

[Shiva13]

I concur with the poster above. If Hero works for you, there is no reason to change at all. But if you have been worn down by percieved drawbacks of the Hero System and want something with less overall weight, M&M 2nd edition is certainly a good choice.

I went through a lot different game systems after I just got tired of the weight the Hero System brings with it. And I'll list a few of them.

Superbabes.

Great system with a few drawbacks. But it combined given experience and a level structure that controlled character power level in a very elegant fashion. Mostly, it was a point based system. But it gave 50 points to improve abilities with when a character advanced an experience level. Experience points were not character points. So advancement was pretty slow.

Marvel SAGA.

A game I still love very deeply. Fast combat resolution, easy character modeling. Very well executed. The card based resolution was outright fun.

Marvel Universe.

I enjoyed this game. Even ran it at a convention. Have 2 copies of every book released for it. It's a game heavy on resource management. And it has one fundimental aspect to it I think actually would be of benefit players of other superghero games as a teaching aid. And that is restraint. That one doesn't have to use their powers at full force most of the time to achieve the desired results.

[The Main Man]

Is there any news about that DC game from Black Industries?
If that comes out under M&M Rules then I am probably going to be playing Marvel/DC Universe games under that, not that it's difficult to convert if I have to.

[CorPse]

Recently moved to Seattle where there are loads of interesting gaming groups. There's a guy here who runs an MnM meets VnV game that's supposed to be great... I'm looking forward to getting a look at this thing next week...

[The Main Man]

The last word from Nicole back in Nov was that there wasn't any game, yet. BI's too busy working on their new WH project.

That stinks.
I hope that when it does actually get released that Marvel jumps on the bandwagon in a way typical of Overpower, Vs. System, and Heroclix.

[CorPse]

I assume you mean Karl's game. His character thread is here: www.atomicthinktank.com/viewtopic.php?t=13117 . Karl seems like a very knowledgeable gamer but he and his group seem to dislike 2nd edition. He, Kevin, and the Seattle posse have been involved in numerous heated discussions about 2e since it came out on the M&M forum. I think he's got the hang of it now though.

That certainly sounds right, although I was under the impression that it was Kev's game, but I'm fresh off the boat in Seattle, and it seems like you know more about it than I do!

This is certainly an interesting town for RPGs. Seems like you can find anyone playing anything at almost any time. It's also interesting that Kev & Co's group, the Seattle Gamers Alliance, is so into trying just about anything that hits the market.

[death tribble]

Agents of Freedom now available and Penumbra, AEGIS and UNISON are detailed. Very nice.

Agent archetypes are shown plus equipment for the agents.

[GestaltBennie]

I've only read the STAR Squad section so far but it's very good. Great work Scott!

Thanks! I won't be able to read the book until tomorrow (my eye's still rescovering from being punctured in one of the surgeries) but i'm glad you folks like it. I hope a number of Hero fans pick it, as I wroee some sections with crossover appeal in mind (just as I do when I write for Hero).

[steamteck]

i would if i felt i was possibly being singlerd out for questioning. If i had seen you ignore others drinking pepsi and saw you come to me and specifically ask about my drinking, i would be curious as to whether it was just me or if it was some more broad hobby of yours.

Its a reasonable question why you post so much on a forum devoted to a game you just try to tear down post after post. It isjust you because no one else is exibiting such unusual behavior. Frankly you've gone a long way towards killing any desire to check out M&M by unfairly beating up on my favorite system for page after page after page. Monolith's critiques's that you so loath actually made me want to check it out more.

[tesuji]

wow blast from the past.
thread necromancy anyone?

[/QUOTE]

Its a reasonable question why you post so much on a forum devoted to a game you just try to tear down post after post.

Suggestion... use Search function...tesuji...see many posts which are not "just try to tear down".
Get Correct facts first... always good advice.

It isjust you because no one else is exibiting such unusual behavior.

wow, and here i thought there was nothing new on the internet.

Frankly you've gone a long way towards killing any desire to check out M&M by unfairly beating up on my favorite system for page after page after page.

then i suggest you don't try MNM... especially the second edition... which went way too HERO for my tastes.

Monolith's critiques's that you so loath actually made me want to check it out more.

or, why not stick with HERO, it may be the best fit for you.