Building a vampiric blade

[Manic Typist]

Basically, a player wants a knife he can use that drains life force from his foes and adds it to his own. Basic idea is simple enough: lower opponent's BODY while rasing user's BODY.

Most of it I think I can handle. Disads, etc.

However, the power itself, I haven't quite figured out yet. At first I looked at Transfer, but I don't want ANY return rate. Drain doesn't look quite right yet...

Right now I'm thinking Healing with a limitation that it matches the damage inflicted. So, I would buy the DC of the knife worth of Healing, with perhaps a custom limit forcing it to match the the damage done and no more (or less) -0 Limitation, anyone?

I guess I could always push the Transfer return/fade rates back to a month... at that point, you're REC should take care of it anyway....

Thoughts?

[AmadanNaBriona]

Basically, a player wants a knife he can use that drains life force from his foes and adds it to his own. Basic idea is simple enough: lower opponent's BODY while rasing user's BODY.

Most of it I think I can handle. Disads, etc.

However, the power itself, I haven't quite figured out yet. At first I looked at Transfer, but I don't want ANY return rate. Drain doesn't look quite right yet...

Right now I'm thinking Healing with a limitation that it matches the damage inflicted. So, I would buy the DC of the knife worth of Healing, with perhaps a custom limit forcing it to match the the damage done and no more (or less) -0 Limitation, anyone?

I guess I could always push the Transfer return/fade rates back to a month... at that point, you're REC should take care of it anyway....

Thoughts?

Depends on how "canon" you want the write up, and if you want the vampric ability to be able to raise the weilders Body above his normal stat level.
If the body gain is limited to healing damage and can't raise above base level, then the limited & linked Healing approach is golden if you're following the rules.

If you don't care about following the rules, call the "no fade rate" and "only to heal" elements of the transfer to be a no gain/no loss push and use Transfer rules and cost with the above Healing mechanics. This is, IMHO, acceptable due to the fact that I REALLY, REALLY expect to see this change in adjustment powers come 6th edition

Edit: Forgot the last bit... if you want the stats to go over base than the long return rate Transfer is an option. Another would be a shorter Fade rate Transfer with a linked Healing or Regeneration that only works while the Transfer is still in effect.

[Curufea]

2D6 HKA + Heal 2D6 (self only) (-1 only if BODY damage caused, and only up to the amount of damage caused) and possibly (-1/2 only if damage caused to creatures that bleed)

[The Monster]

Another way you might try is to have the only damage the weapon does is Transfer, just add a limitation that rPD resists the effect. Streamlines the build a bit.

And you can use the points saved from HKA to buy the return rate to, say, a year or two, making it irrelevant for tactical purposes.

[Manic Typist]

I've talked with the player, and they have come up with a more detailed description, and I will try to post a build later this weekend. In the meantime, I apparently need to take a look at Cumulative...

[1EyedJack]

Another way you might try is to have the only damage the weapon does is Transfer, just add a limitation that rPD resists the effect. Streamlines the build a bit.

And you can use the points saved from HKA to buy the return rate to, say, a year or two, making it irrelevant for tactical purposes.

I like it but, doing it like this won't cause any stun damage. I would recomend linking drain and Aid adjusting fade rates to your liking, to an HKA.A neat idea would be to have the aid fade more quickly than the drain to give the user incintive to be vicious.

[Thia Halmades]

You probably don't want Cumulative, UNLESS Transfer is on the list of powers that does not add to itself, IOW, if I heal you, I can only heal you up to the amount of dice I have in HEAL, which is NOT consistent with the number of TIMES I heal you.

Huge difference.

IMO, you want Transfer, Only to Starting Values. You can, however, link & custom lim Heal, as that works just as well in this system.

[Manic Typist]

Initially, I think I'm going to limit the blade to only being able to restore the character to his starting point. As time progresses, the blade will be able to grow in power.

Basically, I will let the player invest additional XP into the item as a part of roleplay and plot development. It will continue to unlock neat abilities, but I intend for there to be a price (that the character will discover, both from what he learns AND what he experiences). Eventually, I can see this going to the point where it becomes a battle between the knife and it's weilder, and who knows what will come of that...

What I really want is to be able to design it so that it can only do small Drains with short contact. You know, a quick touch to your skin or slice can only drain 1 pip, or 1d6 at most. However, the longer the contact, the greater rate at which it drains you. It sort of... builds up momentum, or velocity if you will. Cumulative doesn't quite do this, but if I can't find an efficient way of modeling it, I will drop the idea, rework the "magical mechanics" of the blade so that it is Cumulative instead of... Inertial?

[Manic Typist]

Ok, here's my "rough draft" of the blade. You know, the gist of where I'm taking this. Please critique, and I will post a revised version tomorrow.

First, let me give a brief breakdown of some of the effects I am trying to reason from. First, getting stabbed hurts. Ok, the dagger itself takes care of that. Second, the magic drains the victim's BODY, causing additional harm. Not necessarily long term (hence I haven't bought down the return rate). Special effect is that the blade is draining the target's "essence." Third, the blade heals the wielder of any wounds they currently have as it drains the victim. Essnetially, a Heal, possibly linked. As GM, I suspended the normal provision of Healing and how often it could be used, and as designed the blade can Heal multiple segments within the same turn (but man, is it expensive!!!).

That's the gist. Here's my first attempt at the magic:

1d6 BODY Drain, Reduced END (O END, +1/2) (Active Cost: 15); OAF (Dagger, -1), Only Works on Creatures that Bleed (-1/2), Must touch target directly (no clothes or armor in the way, -1/2). Requires an Ego Roll to Resist Using the Drain (???), Linked to Heal (Drain can be used without Heal, Heal requires Drain, -1/4).

PLUS

1d6 Healing, Reduced END (0 END, +1/2), Decreased Reuse Duration (+2), Can Heal Limbs Adder (Active Cost: 35); OAF (Dagger, -1), Only Heals as much as Drained (-0).

Right now, I see it coming at about 20 points. I intend to incorporate some Mystery Limitations, which will state their total value but not what they are. I've informed the player of that, and this should be part of the fun. It will include a few things like Does Not Heal Damage from Silver or Holy Based Attacks, etc.

The player wants to be able to press the flat of the blade against someone and use the Drain, essentially to aid a PRE attack (I imagine it would be pretty effective), etc. So, it doesn't need to do BODY to trigger the Drain. I built in a Limitation that ensures that the character does, however, need to secure a significant physical contact in order to use the power. Either stab someone, or press it against their bare skin. You can't use it against them "through" their armor. For that, you need NND, and I'm not interested in that.

Immediate questions: is the Only Works on Creatures that Bleed Limitation too high? I could see dropping it to -1/4.

How should I model the fact that the player has to struggle (at times) to resist using the blade? It wants to feed, and it's an EGO contest for control.

Is the Linked done appropriately?


Improvements? Some way to make it more graceful?

[Manic Typist]

Found a possible lead on the "Requires an EGO roll" limitation- Side Effect. Will try to post a "cleaner" version later.

[Rapier]

Well, poo. I'm Rapier Come-Lately. Totally missed this thread.

Anywhoo.

I wouldn't be too concerned with Fade Rate on a Power of this type if you are limiting the BODY to Only to Starting Value. One of my main dislikes about Adjustment Powers is tracking Fade Rates and such. It's just more paperwork to keep track of.

Healing is a modified form of Aid that doesn't have a Fade Rate and has Only to Starting Value on it. The No Fade Rate and Only to Starting Value tend to almost offset each other.

I don't think it's a far stretch to lend that same concept to other Adjustment Powers (aka Transfer).

In the end there are two basic methods that I see:

1) HKA + Healing (Limited to amount of BODY done by HKA...there is an implied HKA Must do BODY that you see all over the place for venoms and such).

Vampiric Dagger: (Total: 75 Active Cost, 25 Real Cost) HKA 1d6 (1 1/2d6 w/STR) (15 Active Points); OAF (-1), Real Weapon (-1/4) (Real Cost: 7) plus Healing BODY 4d6, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (60 Active Points); OAF (-1), Self Only (-1/2), Can Only Heal the Amount of BODY Done by HKA (-1/2), Linked (HKA; -1/4) (Real Cost: 18)

This is the more true Hero style method. You can run into some situations (such as the restrictions on healing the same wound), but it's probably the most common build.

2) Transfer (only to starting values, no fade rate as discussed above)

Vampiric Dagger: Transfer 3d6 (BODY to BODY) (45 Active Points); rPD Applies (-1), OAF (-1), Only Restores To Starting Values (-1/2), Real Weapon (-1/4) (Real Cost: 12)

Power DEF is pretty rare, IME, so this could get mighty powerful mighty fast unless you apply rPD (like I have). Again, you are going to run into problems with Fade Rate.

There is no clear cut GOOD path to what you want to do. Each method has its own issues and problems to deal with. If it were me, I would probably go with the HKA with Linked Healing and consider it more like Regen where you needn't worry about ReHealing wounds.

[Lord Mhoram]

The player wants to be able to press the flat of the blade against someone and use the Drain, essentially to aid a PRE attack (I imagine it would be pretty effective), etc.

Can I guess that the player is a fan of Brust's Vlad Taltos books? He did something just like that with a similar magic item.

[Manic Typist]

The two weapons are heavily influenced by Artermis Enterri, I believe. I think I just misspelled his name....yup, it's Entreri.


What's "only starting values?"

[Manic Typist]

Here's my updated version:

Feeding the Hunger: Drain BODY 1d6, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (15 Active Points); OAF (Dagger; -1), Only works on creatures that bleed Power loses about a third of its effectiveness (-1/2), Must touch target directly, no armor or clothes in the way Power loses about a third of its effectiveness (-1/2), Requires an EGO roll to resist using Drain in combat (-1/2). Real Cost: 4

I grow stronger: Healing BODY 1d6, Can Heal Limbs, Only Heals as much Drained (+0), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Decreased Reuse Duration: Every Segment (+2) (52 Active Points); OAF (Dagger; -1), Self Only (-1/2), Does not work on silver or holy damage Two or More Types of Damage (-1/2), Linked, Healing requires Drain (Feeding the Hunger; -1/4) Real Cost: 16

Total Cost: 20.


Thoughts?

[Thia Halmades]

"Only Starting Values" means that in the event you are the recipient of supportive Adjustment Powers, they can never raise you over your "starting value." If you have BODY 12, no matter how many times you stab him with the blade, you won't go over 12.

And just to date myself, the first thing I thought of when this thread went up was El's Drinker from the original Dark Sun videogame. Which, once it was doubled and dual wielded, made your tank indestructible.