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Thread: Istvatha V'han - why can't she conquer Earth?

  1. #241
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    Re: Istvatha V'han - why can't she conquer Earth?

    Quote Originally Posted by Balabanto View Post
    I've just never liked the idea of building a villain where the characters have literally no shot at beating them whatsoever because of the scale of the game vs. the scale of experience points.
    Obviously the only way to beat a villain is by punching them in the face...

    I admit that I'm not a Superfriend of the overly powerful supervillains in the CU. Conquering/destroying the city/world/universe/multiverse isn't necessarily or particularly a function of individual combat ability. In general, it requires a plot, which can, by definition, be thwarted.

    The notion of inevitable revenge is no different than that of an undefeatable plot.

    The villains win! Woo hoo!
    -- or --
    NPCs beat them! Woo hoo!
    -- or --
    Your characters beat them, but then get killed in the inevitable revenge plot! NPCs avenge them! Woo hoo!
    -- or --
    We play some other game! Woo hoo!
    The character in my avatar is Captain Atom.

  2. #242
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    Re: Istvatha V'han - why can't she conquer Earth?

    Quote Originally Posted by Susano View Post
    But in many ways, Istvatha's no different than Kang the Conquerer, Doctor Doom, or Darkseid. You can't 'beat' Darkseid, but you can stop his most recent plots. How about Galactus? Or some of the major threats the Legion ofd Superheroes has faced (the Time Trapper was up there in power and resources, if I recall.) Do these fit in your universe? Because they're almost all fairly central to the universes in which they exist.
    Quote Originally Posted by Balabanto View Post
    I've just never liked the idea of building a villain where the characters have literally no shot at beating them whatsoever because of the scale of the game vs. the scale of experience points.
    They how about not beating, but thwarting? Stopping the plot that is in action.

    They are a lot more villains in the CU that can simply not be overcome in a direct fight:
    Dr. Destroyer, Gravitar, Grond. Each of them has so many points you never will have a shot at subdoing him in a fair combat. But you can prevent Dr. D from extorting the world with his Deathray (by blowing it up), or Distract Grond enough on his Rampage that he "forgets" that he wanted to smash that nuclear power plant. Istvatha also comes on that list, but not because she has a lot of points but because she has no reason the even go there. So unless your attacks are interdimensional, there is little chance to hit her in the face with most attacak powers.

    Champions Genre book even has a name for such beings: Cosmicmenace/Space God. A simple term for all those enemies where using your attack powers to hit them in the face isn't going to win the day. If your players dislike those stories (or least how they turn out with you as GM*), then they are missing some good roleplaying and storylines.

    *with the words from basic instict:
    "I thought you liked it when man use their hands?" "No, I said I liked it when [specific man] used his hands."

    Quote Originally Posted by massey View Post
    The game is about the PCs, because they're the ones playing in it. I've been in a few games where the GM was bound and determined to tell his story. NPCs showed up and did all the cool things. NPC heroes fought NPC villains, and the players were just along for the ride. Those games sucked, and that GM quickly found himself without players. He can sit at home and tell stories to himself about his cool NPCs. I'm not saying you run games like that. But in the end, gaming is a social experience that centers around the people involved.
    In my few tries as GM I personally tended towards that. I think it is my instict to play that get's the better of me.

    Quote Originally Posted by massey View Post
    You don't have to be one of those GMs who spends their nights working out battle plans for how the dragon is going to kill the party. "So, he'll swoop down here, and then he'll breathe fire, and then he goes over here to his secret stash of healing potions, and then he drops the cow carcass that is infested with rot grubs on them... because this is how dragons would really fight."
    I personally also tended to think that I can't overrule the personality of my character. But that was wrong.
    No matter how detailed I planned the personality, I the player have final say on how he acts and I ahve to make sure it is in a way that the GM can work with it.
    The same applies for NPC's: Sometimes they just act totally out of character, because it fits the story. Could be temporary mind controll, some minor personality quirk that got the better of him (overcinfidence) or just a brain fart. Sometimes it's jsut "Squirrel Girl" day for your cosmic menace.
    Quote Originally Posted by prestidigitator View Post
    If it looks like a duck, and sounds like a duck, it might just be a duck-flavored Killing Attack
    Are you stuck in Mobile Style and want to go back? Look here:
    http://www.herogames.com/forums/show...43#post2159343

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