Istvatha V'han - why can't she conquer Earth?

[Captain Obvious]

Getting back to the original question,. I think the reason she doesn't wipe the earth away into its component atoms is that there are some really hot guys on the planet, and she'd like to score with a few of them. Earthmen are the hottest!

This supports and is supported by the theory of mine that Input Jack has in his sig block...

[OddHat]

I don't use V'Han as written when I run a CU game, and my equivalent of her character in my home campaign is based mainly on Robert Heinlein's Empress of 10,000 Worlds from Glory Road. That said, I have some ideas about why she doesn't just take the Earth through overwhelming force:

She really thinks the Earth would be better off as part of her Great Empire. She's not interested in destroying Earth, or even enslaving Earth; she sees the Earth as ruled by squabbling petty tyrants and criminals, thugs determined to enslave their own people and poison their own world (if they don't blow it up first). That would be a shame, as the Earth is full of brilliant artists, powerful Superhumans, and masters of strange sciences. It's an incredibly promising world.

Further, she isn't comfortable with the dimensional nexus Earth seems to be locked into, and the network of other extradimensional beings from anthropomorphic "Gods" to incomprehensible things that have taken an interest in this world. She doesn't want to provoke an open war with the Kings of Edom, Skarn, or the bizarre pantheons that see Earth as theirs, at least not until she's sure she can win at a reasonable cost.

She doesn't want to destroy the Earth or wipe out more of its population than absolutely necessary. Not only would such a course be barbaric and wasteful, it would undercut her own ideology of conquest, giving ammunition to her political opponents at home. She's in the position of an 18th or 19th century Great Power that wishes to gain control over the resources of a small but rich and strategically important nation; defeating that nation's military is easy enough, but the complications arising from the possible reactions of other Great Powers and the costs of pacification are high enough to make caution the wisest choice.

And so she uses cats paws, makes alliances with key powers and key personalities, and shows a kind and generous face to those she hopes to recruit to her cause while her covert agents do what needs to be done. Once Earth sees the alternatives and the dangers, once they understand that She is their best and only hope against the other, far harsher powers that covet their lands, the people will cry out to join her Empire.

Claims that Earth already has "Freedom" and "Good Government" are met with polite dismissal by Her Majesty, and with open mockery by her generals and advisers. She points out that over half the world's population lives in poverty by the Earth's own standards, that two thirds live under brutal dictatorships, and that even the Earth's most advanced nations live under governments racked by corruption and inefficiency. Her advisers point out that only the wealthiest 1% of humanity live lifestyles above what is considered abject poverty by the standards of the Great Empire.

Besides, they get all the Earth news feeds. Ten minutes research shows that the place is ruled by idiots, thugs and madmen.

The only thing stopping third world nations from lining up to join the Great Empire is their own government's reluctance to surrender power.

[ParagonAlpha]

I don't use V'Han as written when I run a CU game, and my equivalent of her character in my home campaign is based mainly on Robert Heinlein's Empress of 10,000 Worlds from Glory Road. That said, I have some ideas about why she doesn't just take the Earth through overwhelming force:

She really thinks the Earth would be better off as part of her Great Empire. She's not interested in destroying Earth, or even enslaving Earth; she sees the Earth as ruled by squabbling petty tyrants and criminals, thugs determined to enslave their own people and poison their own world (if they don't blow it up first). That would be a shame, as the Earth is full of brilliant artists, powerful Superhumans, and masters of strange sciences. It's an incredibly promising world.

Further, she isn't comfortable with the dimensional nexus Earth seems to be locked into, and the network of other extradimensional beings from anthropomorphic "Gods" to incomprehensible things that have taken an interest in this world. She doesn't want to provoke an open war with the Kings of Edom, Skarn, or the bizarre pantheons that see Earth as theirs, at least not until she's sure she can win at a reasonable cost.

She doesn't want to destroy the Earth or wipe out more of its population than absolutely necessary. Not only would such a course be barbaric and wasteful, it would undercut her own ideology of conquest, giving ammunition to her political opponents at home. She's in the position of an 18th or 19th century Great Power that wishes to gain control over the resources of a small but rich and strategically important nation; defeating that nation's military is easy enough, but the complications arising from the possible reactions of other Great Powers and the costs of pacification are high enough to make caution the wisest choice.

And so she uses cats paws, makes alliances with key powers and key personalities, and shows a kind and generous face to those she hopes to recruit to her cause while her covert agents do what needs to be done. Once Earth sees the alternatives and the dangers, once they understand that She is their best and only hope against the other, far harsher powers that covet their lands, the people will cry out to join her Empire.

Claims that Earth already has "Freedom" and "Good Government" are met with polite dismissal by Her Majesty, and with open mockery by her generals and advisers. She points out that over half the world's population lives in poverty by the Earth's own standards, that two thirds live under brutal dictatorships, and that even the Earth's most advanced nations live under governments racked by corruption and inefficiency. Her advisers point out that only the wealthiest 1% of humanity live lifestyles above what is considered abject poverty by the standards of the Great Empire.

Besides, they get all the Earth news feeds. Ten minutes research shows that the place is ruled by idiots, thugs and madmen.

The only thing stopping third world nations from lining up to join the Great Empire is their own government's reluctance to surrender power.

I would rep you but I can't right now... anyone who uses the Empress deserves rep.

[Michael Hopcroft]

so Mars needs women, Vhan needs men ?

With a body like that and the stress ruling ten thousand dimensions puts her through on a daily basis, sex would probably be one of her greatest links to sanity. And since she cannot bear a rival (or "partner"), she'd probably keep dozens of "boytoys" (or whatever toys -- she might not be that particular about species or gender given the vastness and diversity of her realm).

[Susano]

Introduce Istvatha V'han to Dark Schneider.

Then move to another dimension. FAST!

[Captain Obvious]

With OddHat's spin on V'han, it might be pretty amusing for her to send in "peace-keeping troops"...

[Balabanto]

This has actually hit on "Why I don't use Isthva Vhan."

If I were Lady Vhan, I'd make certain that I attacked third world nations first, and made their lives significantly better. Of course, since one of my other villains already did this at one point, there would be a fight in my world, but that's neither here nor there.

So, Vhan deposes a bunch of scummy dictators, kills them, and installs kind, benevolent despotism, good health care, decent housing, and a supportive governor selected from the most popular of locals.

What now?

That's why I can't use this villain. She's not played up to her intelligence level.

[Susano]

That's why I can't use this villain. She's not played up to her intelligence level.

Errr... wait... that doesn't make sense to me. You can't/won't use Istvatha V'han because the original character sheet doesn't give her tactics that match her presumed INT? Then why not change her tactics to suit your needs? Or is she more of a tactical dead end, where every plot you could give her goes no where?

[OddHat]

So, Vhan deposes a bunch of scummy dictators, kills them, and installs kind, benevolent despotism, good health care, decent housing, and a supportive governor selected from the most popular of locals.

What now?

Now your players (and the US and UN, but mostly your players) have to decide if they want to push out V'Han's troops and let murdering scumbag dictators come back into power, or worse, let the "freed" nations dissolve into anarchy. V'Han makes friendly diplomatic noises while preparing to meet a counter invasion with overwhelming force, while elevating her new subjects life styles even as she trains human armies in the use of super-high tech weaponry. And the other dimension conquerers look on in growing concern, as do extraterrestrials. Can the players drive away V'Han without sparking a world (and solar system) wide war? Why has the Empress made such a bold move? What do the great world crushing Supervillains do?

If you ever took that path with V'Han, it would be a major story arc for your campaign. Not saying that you should or have to; just pointing out that it can be done, and that it could carry an epic combination Alien Invasion / World War vibe.

[Balabanto]

The problem is that while I could DO it, it would, I fear, bother my players. They would all sit there and say "What? You can't be serious."

Also, the other problem is that once Vhan does all this, if you attack, when it's over, things will be even worse than they were before.

Advantage, Vhan.

Plus, if you're Vhan, and you're not an idiot, you don't attack Africa. Africa's tactically indefensible and you want a strong defensive position. You have the technology of a million dimensions and don't care about ground movement. You attack Malaysia, Indonesia, and the Philippines. These people will be so grateful to Vhan for conquering them after years of despotism and incompetent governments that they will join with her in a heartbeat.

Advantage, Vhan

In order to land ground troops, you need to wage a naval assault or open large teleport gates. The terrorists are irrelevant because I have the telepaths of a million dimensions to locate and kill them. And no one, I mean, no one, will complain about the loss of people who blow people up in the street by committing suicide. And you know, as unheroic as this is, there aren't a lot of PC's who would be willing to stop Vhan from killing suicide bombers.

Advantage, Vhan.

Your only problem is that we're looking at this as a two way conflict when in reality, we're looking at a three way conflict. Inevitably, if Vhan invades, the Earth will also have to fight Tyrannon. While you'll have Vhan as an ally, the ensuing conflict could wipe out most of the planet.

[Captain Obvious]

All this is assuming that Vhan is going to attack just the Earth rather than the entire dimension, and that the people of Earth are going to just roll over and let her take over rather than want to rule themselves (look at Iraq, if everyone there just settled down and acted like Americans, it would be a regional power inside a month...as it is, everyone wants complete power rather than having to share it democratically), and that the third world countries being attacked won't make a stink in the UN and bring the big guns in on their side. China won't be happy with space aliens taking over all their little economic colonies they've been setting up all over, for one.

[Susano]

This also assumes that the PCs haven't done any space or dimension travel of their own. C'mon, if you're going to be bringing in V'han, the PCs should have had a little off-world experience, and thus may have allies they can bring in to counter her technological might. How about time travel? Have the PCs visted the Galactic Champions era? Perhaps they can recruit the Champions 3000 to make trouble for V'han while they sneak in and turn off the gate. Maybe they can find the Ultimate Nullifier and threaten V'han with it. Or figure out a way to make trouble back home, causing her to withdraw. Or alter the magic flow so half of her stuff doesn't work.

V'Han is no different than Galactus, Darkseid, or any number of cosmic-level threats. Yes, one presumes that with all of the dimensions she has under her (presumed) control, she has access to technology that far outstrips ours, but will it work in our dimension? How big of a warp gate can she create anyway? Will she fall victim to one of the classic blunders (Never get involved in a land war in Asia)? I mean, I don't see the world's most populous Muslim country just rolling over and accepting an utterly alien outsider like V'han simply because she kicks over the government. Heck, I don't think the Philippines is going to be all accepting either -- she certainly isn't Catholic (V'han obviously belongs to the Church of V'han). As Capt. Obvious said, look at Iraq. To be blunt, it was a case of "Thanks for getting rid of Saddam, you can go now." Why should it be any different in this case?

Fighting V'han isn't a case of haymakering her until she goes away. This isn't the Ragnarock scenario from Simonson's run on Thor. It's like dealing with Galactus. You have to do an end run around him and direct him elsewhere. Sure, all of the Marvel heroes (and villains) could band together and fight him, but at what cost? And would there be much of a world left? So you produce the Ultimate Nullifier, or bargain with him, or get an even bigger threat to scare him off with (like maybe... uhmm... the Celestials? Dunno).

I also doubt Dr. Destroyer is going to allow some extra-dimensional upstart like V'han to start meddling with his world. She starts invading Indonesia, and a flow of Destroyer Inc. arms might just start appearing in the hands of rebels. Rebels who will be more than happy to test out their new toys on the Infidels From Planet X. And I'm pretty positive that Destroyer can whip up some pretty ugly firepower if needed (not to mention the rest of the mega villains in the CU). Oh, and let's not forget all of the aliens races out there who have Earth under surveillance. Earth's too important an nexus to let her have it, so she might just find several battle fleets sitting in the solar system all willing to call a truce until V'han's blue butt is back where it belongs.

[OddHat]

And all of the chaos mentioned above by Susano, the resistance pointed out by Captain Obvious, and the threat of other dimension lords mentioned by Balabanto, makes the V'han campaign. Further, V'han has centuries (or more) of experience at this sort of thing; she knows what to expect. So the players need to ask, why would she stir up such a hornets nest now? Why did she stop taking the subtle path? What terrible threat or unimaginable prize could provoke her into risking the destruction of a jewel like the CU Earth through direct conquest? It practically writes itself.

[Balabanto]

Clearly, Oddhat is smarter than me.

[Vondy]

Because genre conventions in comic books are often silly?