Super-Powerful Magic

[Michael Hopcroft]

I;m fond of fantasy campaigns that are decidedly unbalanced. Where certain magic users are indomitably powerful forces, but they are balanced out by having their actions have larger than usual implications. We're talking mages who, after learning the right spell, can blow up a stone castle with one shot.

What sort of threats are usually needed to provide challenges to these ultra-powerful characters? Even a dragon might not suffice. My best guess is that the use of powerful magic draws the attention of SOMETHING. Something malevolent, mischevious and extremely powerful.

[Mutant for Hire]

If I was a superpowerful wizard capable of blowing up a castle with a single spell, I would certainly also learn a spell to protect my castle from being blown up like that.

The simple answer is for every power there is a counter. In the end, other beings on the same power level are going to be in opposition. Of course your average peasant is going to have the mystic equivalent of a fallout shelter to dive into every time a new power comes in to challenge their leige lord. The ones who didn't haven't lasted that long.

So who is going to counter your powerful wizards? Other powerful wizards.

Other options include the gods. All those peasants praying to the gods for deliverance from these horrible magicians wandering around causing damage. I expect that the local priests being a focus for the power of the god and the prayer of the local congregation might well be very powerful themselves.

[Balok]

Wizards that powerful might well divide the world into a series of warlord states. Those without power would have basically no rights. However, if you make the wizards depend on those individuals in some manner (perhaps the power, or mana, comes from life, as in Dark Sun), then those individuals become important.

You'd likely end up with a world similar to that of "Thundarr the Barbarian". Most opposition to wizards would come from other wizards. The rest would come from the occasionally lucky commoner who somehow susses out a wizard's weakness, or from a creature that is as powerful or that cannot be affected by magic.

[Markdoc]

As already mentioned, the only real challenge for high level magic users is other high level magic users, whether they be gods, demons, ancient dragons or other wrinkly old guys.

The real point for this post is to suggest some useful source material. Jack Vance's Rhialto the Magnificent is a series of short stories detailing the treacheries and affairs of a group of Ultramages.

Kings and kingdoms are largely irrelevant to these guys.

By the same author, the Lyonesse series also has a group of ultramages - in their case they are forbidden to interfere in mundane affairs by the toughest mage around and a few of his buddies, who promise to duff over any mages they catch messing with the mundane world (which doesn't actually stop any of them, of course).

If you are going to run a game at this power level, you need to offer the players challenges other than kill-the-monster, loot-the-place. Perhaps organising kingdoms or setting up new religions, or...

cheers, Mark

[tiger]

Their could be many threats

Powerful Demons or Devils
Group of other powerful mages working together
Nasty up a Dragon or two, that should keep them busy for a little bit anyway

[Agent X]

Originally posted by Markdoc
As already mentioned, the only real challenge for high level magic users is other high level magic users, whether they be gods, demons, ancient dragons or other wrinkly old guys.

The real point for this post is to suggest some useful source material. Jack Vance's Rhialto the Magnificent is a series of short stories detailing the treacheries and affairs of a group of Ultramages.

Kings and kingdoms are largely irrelevant to these guys.

By the same author, the Lyonesse series also has a group of ultramages - in their case they are forbidden to interfere in mundane affairs by the toughest mage around and a few of his buddies, who promise to duff over any mages they catch messing with the mundane world (which doesn't actually stop any of them, of course).

If you are going to run a game at this power level, you need to offer the players challenges other than kill-the-monster, loot-the-place. Perhaps organising kingdoms or setting up new religions, or...

cheers, Mark

I think you are on the right track. I loved the Green Pearl. Still, what you are describing is a very complicated job for a GM. This would require extremely intricate stories so - lift them from old fantasy novels. I'm not sure how many contemporary fantasy novels are "deep" enough for such artful thievery but many older fantasy novels are replete with mysteries that need to be solved that lead to quandaries about what to do. The Foundation Series would be a fascinating plot to adapt to a Fantasy Setting of UltraMages.

[Nelijal]

How about the old witchcraft adage that whatever you do comes back to you threefold (remember The Craft?). Just because you can destroy a castle with one shot doesn't mean you should.

Consider what modern science calls the conservation of matter and energy. Nothing is actually created, the mass+energy in the Universe is constant, so if you generate a non-natural concentration of energy in one spot, that energy has to have been pulled from somewhere else. The simplest example of this is a rain dance. Yes, you may save your village from drought, but you have just deprived someone else of the rain they needed. Unlike in D&D, nothing is free.

This would take some up-front work to maintain a consistent cause and effect relationship, but it would then be largely self-regulating. A powerful mage would have to consider the repercussions of playing with strong magic.

[Old Man]

A couple ideas spring to mind. One is that ultra-powerful magic requires ultra-annoying limitations. So you can destroy a castle, but only under a full moon, after fasting and chanting for three days, with a willing virgin female sacrifice of royal blood, slain with a dagger made of a dragon's left upper molar, when the stars are right and your insurance is paid up.

Another is side effects, a limitation that just isn't fleshed out well at all in the book. Does it attract the attention of every other sentient being for miles around? Is there a huge, green, roiling storm cloud in the sky directly over where you're standing? Does it actually summon demons from the Nine Hells? Does it have a long-term cause and effect in the campaign? Do the side effects go off automatically or only when you mess up? And so forth.

[Markdoc]

>>>>Still, what you are describing is a very complicated job for a GM. This would require extremely intricate stories so - lift them from old fantasy novels. I'm not sure how many contemporary fantasy novels are "deep" enough for such artful thievery but many older fantasy novels are replete with mysteries that need to be solved that lead to quandaries about what to do. The Foundation Series would be a fascinating plot to adapt to a Fantasy Setting of UltraMages.<<<<<

Now you are getting the idea - for this kind of game, you need to lift ideas from other than the traditional fantasy sources.

I ran a game called "Masters of Luck and Death" in which all of the players were Immortals with "powers beyond the ken of ordinary men". Death, for example, could see other people's deaths, kill with a touch or travel to anyplace where there was lot of death occurring. The Hanged Man could take on other people's forms, skills, even memories - but only when he/she "died", while the Devil was the arch-seducer. In short, 250 point characters, in a world where a veteran soldier was built on 25 points....

For games like that you draw inspiration from (among others) Creatures of Light and Darkness, or 9 princes in Amber, Master of Reality or Aristoi. Or from games like Mage and VtM.

cheers, Mark

[BNakagawa]

I'm inordinately fond of magic that is subject to laws no man has yet fathomed.

I mean, it's ok for there to be working theories and general guidelines about what is 'safe' and 'reliable' but for there to be grey areas that have never been nailed down that keep academics tearing at eachother like weasels in heat.

This sort of environment fosters a healthy fear of magic, because you never know what it's truly capable of, and you can never quite rely on it to do what you need it to, when you need it to.

This more than offsets the simple ability to blow down a castle with a spell.

Knowing in the back of your mind that some day, your magic might just turn off and leave you high and dry for an undetermined period of time, and every foe you've ever left burned, bloodied (not to mention homeless) might come out of the woodworks looking for a piece of your non-spellcasting behind.

This works for me.

[Nelijal]

Originally posted by BNakagawa
Knowing in the back of your mind that some day, your magic might just turn off and leave you high and dry for an undetermined period of time, and every foe you've ever left burned, bloodied (not to mention homeless) might come out of the woodworks looking for a piece of your non-spellcasting behind.

I'm going to have to write that one down for the next time magic is a common element in one of my games. I like it.

[Bazza]

Originally posted by Nelijal

Originally posted by BNakagawa
Knowing in the back of your mind that some day, your magic might just turn off and leave you high and dry for an undetermined period of time, and every foe you've ever left burned, bloodied (not to mention homeless) might come out of the woodworks looking for a piece of your non-spellcasting behind.
This works for me.

I'm going to have to write that one down for the next time magic is a common element in one of my games. I like it.

You might want to look for the old Wrath of the Immortals box set. In there one day a year magic was ‘turned off’. Magical items lost their enchantments for a day, wizards were unable to cast magic, some types of wizards just died, no healing magic, sky castles levitated by magic just come crashing down to earth, magic portals are closed. It came to be known as the Day of Dread.

[Primal]

Not quite useful for what it sounds like you want, but one idea I've used in my fantasy world is a bit of the "Glass Ceiling" effect.. There is basically a group of mages who have achieved a power well beyond the rest. They have earth-shattering, continent-spanning capabilities. Yet they have are not visibly leaders in any land. They are behind the scenes players who are limited by their intense rivalry with each other. They spend too much time researching magic and spying on their fellows to bother trying to rule anything. They dare not take too active a role in the world lest they attract the attention of too many unfriendly peers at one time. No mage can safely ascend to the ranks of these uber-elite without one of them as his patron, because someone would eliminate him if he started to become a threat on his own.

The basic feel is the Superpowers' Cold War thing, except much more behind the scenes and multilateral. The mages act through proxies and must play Cold War politics, and devote most of their time to R&D and spying.

edit: spelling

[GradonSilverton]

Where does magic come from in your world? Are MAges channeling inner forces? Manipulating Nature? Etc.?

What I'd like to think is that if they are channeling inner force (think Chi) that to blow up a castle with one spell is the equivalent of Russian Roulette with Brain Cells....maybe, just maybe, they use way too much of their inner self this time...it could kill them instantly, make them forget a language, or cause a long illness....the effect is that they permanently loose some of their inner force if they "over due it".

[Seenar]

In the game I played in where we had Mages that powerful, the challenges of each senerio were varied. Often, just blowing up the castle is out of the question if you want something that is hidden inside (safe from your super scrying ability of course).

We also had to fight creatures very power, and devine the GM's clues as to what the weaknesses were. Our GM loved logic puzzles.