Combat Issues

[Klaus Mogensen]

I pick the lock, or rebuild my gun from scratch, or write War and Peace. Any of which take only 2 segments. But I won't speak in combat any more, since a speech takes 2 segments. I suggest, instead, that this change would require other actions be assigned a time cost. Skills should be included, with penalties for speeding it up and bonuses for slowing it down - but that should be done regardless of whether the Speed chart is retained.

Right you are - I meant all combat-related actions would take two segments.

So essentially, reserving or delaying delays all my future actions an equivalent amount.

Only if you delay beyond the normal duration of the action - corresponding to delaying into your next phase with the current rules.

Just occurred to me that you haven't mentioned a cost of SPD. 2 points per would mean 100 points to max out, like a 10 DEX character under the current model.

Ah, yes, the cost vanished in my editing. It is supposed to be two points.

Can I buy my SPD above 60 to reduce the cost of reactions (seems kind of stupid that I take 1 segment to attack but 3 if I add a dodge or block when a Normal takes 6 segments to attack, but 8 if he Blocks or Dodges, and someone really slow needs 12 segments to attack, and 14 if he Blocks or Dodges).

Good point. Perhaps Speed 60 should simply get you 12 speed tokens instead of reducing AC to 1.

As I read this, it seems to make sense that combat starts on Segment 1 and, since no one has an action or reaction, they simply all move on Segment 1. After the first turn, we'd see the spillover effect. If you have to React to activate your force field to defend against someone who acts earlier in Segment 1, then you'll get your next move in Segment 3, I guess.

This is indeed how I intended it to work.

This must be the New Math. When I learned math, 4 x 2 = 8. If my Running had been bought up to 8m, would my max be 16m (2x), 14m (same 7/4 ratio) or 15 m (same double minus 1 formula)?

You misunderstand. Human base move is 4m; human maximum is 7m. If you move non-combat, these numbers are doubled.

So movement is not divorced from SPD, then.

Yes it is - a full move always takes 2 segments. The maximum you can move in a turn is six full moves, regardless of your Speed.

Even with the speed tokens, and the finer granularity option, we still have a few dead spaces. Still, no worse than many other primary characteristics.

And better than SPD now.

Can I choose to half move at the cost of 1 segment each (an exception to "other actions cost 2 segments")?

As I imagine it, you would only be able to half-move in connection with combat. This may seem odd, but it is to prevent too much micro-movement.

- Klaus

[Hugh Neilson]

Good point. Perhaps Speed 60 should simply get you 12 speed tokens instead of reducing AC to 1.

Having Dodge and Block, etc., take the same time regardless of how fast you can take other actions just feels off to me. If reaction simply pre-started your next move (so you've taken your next Action and cannot react again until its duration is expired), then actions like Dodge could have the same cost as any other combat maneuver.

As I imagine it, you would only be able to half-move in connection with combat. This may seem odd, but it is to prevent too much micro-movement.

So I can't make a half move and then delay my remaining action?

[ajackson]

Here's a somewhat more radical speed system. Basically, speed no longer exists as a separate ability -- you can buy 'speed' levels, or you can spend normal levels to take actions faster. The level cost depends on how fast you do the action, in general being +4 levels to halve time.
8 shots: 0 levels
7 shots: 1 level
6 shots: 2 level
5 shots: 3 levels
4 shots: 4 levels
3 shots: 6 levels
2 shots: 8 levels
1 shot: 12 levels

It works out that reducing your shot cost is efficient if your hit chance is 14 or better. This also has the benefit of allowing speed to be directly plugged into any power level formulas. Further on this scheme:
Movement: it normally takes 1 shot to move one hex; movement powers can increase the hexes per shot. This is normally added to the shot cost of your action, but actions may not exceed 8 shots. You may spend 4 levels to combine moving and attacking (using the same shots for both).
Aborting: dodging works just like any other combat move.

[The Main Man]

This sounds similar to an earlier idea that I once had which involved all characters to start out at 2 SPD and the act of using more phases was akin to using the Hurry Maneuver.

A character that could reliably use more than 2 Phases/Turn would buy either CSL's or PSL's (not sure which) to counteract the penalties.

Similarly, I do not think that such a Maneuver would be out of line for 6e in which characters can act on more Phases than they bought - They are simply penalized.

I think that -2 OCV/-2 DCV would suffice, with the catch being that the penalty both accumulates and it persists through the entire Turn until it resets at Segment 12.

[Klaus Mogensen]

Having Dodge and Block, etc., take the same time regardless of how fast you can take other actions just feels off to me. If reaction simply pre-started your next move (so you've taken your next Action and cannot react again until its duration is expired), then actions like Dodge could have the same cost as any other combat maneuver.

I guess Reactions could be changed to take as much time as attacks, though that would mean that you very rarely will see slow characters dodge or block.

So I can't make a half move and then delay my remaining action?

It does make sense to allow single-segment movement. I just worry that it might slow action down. I guess playtesting could tell that.

- Klaus

[BlackSword]

[*]Attacks have a duration in segments that depends on a new Speed primary characteristic (base 10, NCM 20).

Overall I like your system. Though it might require some reworking of your numbers one addition I would like to see is that an attack has its own speed (completely random thought Active Points/10), and the duration cost for an attack would be AC + (Attack Duration). An advantage or adder could be used to decrease an attack's duration, a disadvantage could be used to increase an attack's duration.

[ajackson]

I guess Reactions could be changed to take as much time as attacks, though that would mean that you very rarely will see slow characters dodge or block.

That's not really a big change from the current system.

[AnotherSkip]

1. Some of the more unbalancing optional combat manuvers should have Caution and or Stop signs attached to them.
2. Rapid attack should be extended over multible phases (thus each attack in a rapid attack takes either 1 second or possibly 2 per second to simulate two handed versions of Rapid attack).

[AnotherSkip]

Randomizing intitiative
Dex/5= # of dice to roll for intiative...

What do you guys think of this as an optional idea?

and to make every point count the leftover/remainder is a straight add

[Hugh Neilson]

Randomizing intitiative
Dex/5= # of dice to roll for intiative...

What do you guys think of this as an optional idea?

and to make every point count the leftover/remainder is a straight add

I think it makes the leftover more valuable than the DEX, since I get 1d6 for 5 points (3.5 average), but +4 for an extra 4 points. Maybe DEX/3?

I also think this belongs as an optional rule in the APG, but I want to relegate virtually every Optional Rule to the APG and have core rules you play out of the box.

[AnotherSkip]

But he evil thing is you only get +1-4 you can't buy straight adds.

[Balabanto]

Re-doing the SPD chart may not be that productive. I'm worried that it won't be Hero anymore if that happens.

[Steve Long]

Hey folx! It's time for me to start reading all the 6E threads, and that means I need to lock them.

Hopefully 15 months has been plenty of time for anyone who wanted to have a say, to have a say. So please, don't start up other threads to try to continue discussions, send me PMs with points you "just have to make," or anything like that. It's time for y'all to sit back, relax, have a frosty beverage, and let me get 6E written.

We definitely appreciate everyone's interest, participation, and ideas! I'm looking forward to reading the posts and seeing what nuggets of wisdom lurk therein. I have no doubt 6E is going to be even better than it would have been because of our fans' enthusiastic efforts at providing us with input and suggestions.