Powers Issues -- S-T

[Klaus Mogensen]

My thoughts on TK:

TK should cost 10 points for 0 STR, usable at range. Each additional 2 points of STR costs 3 character points.
Adder: Precise Manipulation (+20 points) – The character may perform fine work without making a roll, but any skills used may still have a Range Modifier.
Limitation: Weak (-1/2) – The TK has a STR of -8, and may not be increased.
Limitation: Very Weak (-1) – The TK has a STR of -15, and may not be increased.

My thoughts on TK:

TK is bought up from STR -20 at 1 point per +1 STR (minimum cost 5). "Precise manipulation" is a 10-point adder.

- Klaus

[PhilFleischmann]

My thoughts on TK:

TK should cost 10 points for 0 STR, usable at range. Each additional 2 points of STR costs 3 character points.
Adder: Precise Manipulation (+20 points) – The character may perform fine work without making a roll, but any skills used may still have a Range Modifier.
Limitation: Weak (-1/2) – The TK has a STR of -8, and may not be increased.
Limitation: Very Weak (-1) – The TK has a STR of -15, and may not be increased.

I like it! It seems that Precise Manipulation should be a little less than that, or maybe give it more than one level: 10 points for Fine Manipulation, 20 points for Very Fine Manipulation.

[ajackson]

TK is another example where 'utility of being able to do something at all' and 'utility of increased ability' are separate.

[IndianaJoe3]

I like it! It seems that Precise Manipulation should be a little less than that, or maybe give it more than one level: 10 points for Fine Manipulation, 20 points for Very Fine Manipulation.

Precise Manipulation would be an addition to the existing Fine Manipulation.

[PhilFleischmann]

Precise Manipulation would be an addition to the existing Fine Manipulation.

Even better! What do you see as the dividing line(s) between Regular Manipulation, Fine Manipulation, and Precise Manipulation?

[IndianaJoe3]

Even better! What do you see as the dividing line(s) between Regular Manipulation, Fine Manipulation, and Precise Manipulation?

The difference between Regular and Fine Manipulation is the same as in 5e. Precise Manipulation is like Fine Manipulation, but does not require an additional roll to perform a task.

[IndianaJoe3]

Time for my final thoughts on Powers (S-T).

Shrinking
Growth momentum no longer adds to damage.

Stretching
Stretching can no longer add damage to attacks. Also, Stretching may no longer be used to attack a target from behind.
Advantage: Indirect (+1/4) – Stretching with this Advantage allows the character to attack targets from any angle, including behind.

Telekenisis: See recent post.

[JmOz]

Summon:

Duplication should be removed and options added to the summons power, at 100% loyalty it is not to unbalancing to allow the player at least predominant control over the summoned being

The specific person (Can't remember exactly what it is called) advantage should be looked at carefuly. While being able to summon a specific great warrior is definatly advantages, being able to summon a fairly standard example of something, even if it is a specific example (Freedom a bald eagle) might not be.

If this has been stated before I am sorry (I might have even said it before)

[Hugh Neilson]

Duplication should be removed and options added to the summons power, at 100% loyalty it is not to unbalancing to allow the player at least predominant control over the summoned being

At least a nod should be given to having the player run the summoned creature where appropriate. The GM has enough to do, and it seems reasonable that, at higher loyalty levels, the GM should need to intervene only if the player is clearly being unreasonable.

The specific person (Can't remember exactly what it is called) advantage should be looked at carefuly. While being able to summon a specific great warrior is definatly advantages, being able to summon a fairly standard example of something, even if it is a specific example (Freedom a bald eagle) might not be.

I think this needs to be clarified. The ability to Summon "any human, specific person" is extremely powerful. Why search for the guy if I can just Summon him? King giving you problems? Summon his daughter as a hostage.

But the ability to summon Fred the Cop rather than a generic being with the same statistics is probably disadvantageous, if anything. Generic Cop gets smashed to -7 BOD and hospitalized? Use Summon again and you get a new cop. Fred gets smashed to -7 BOD and hospitalized? Use Summon and get Fred in a body cast. Seems to me that's a limitation, not an advantage.

[nexus]

At least a nod should be given to having the player run the summoned creature where appropriate. The GM has enough to do, and it seems reasonable that, at higher loyalty levels, the GM should need to intervene only if the player is clearly being unreasonable.

I think this needs to be clarified. The ability to Summon "any human, specific person" is extremely powerful. Why search for the guy if I can just Summon him? King giving you problems? Summon his daughter as a hostage.

But the ability to summon Fred the Cop rather than a generic being with the same statistics is probably disadvantageous, if anything. Generic Cop gets smashed to -7 BOD and hospitalized? Use Summon again and you get a new cop. Fred gets smashed to -7 BOD and hospitalized? Use Summon and get Fred in a body cast. Seems to me that's a limitation, not an advantage.

While I could see Duplication rolled into Summoning for simplicity's sake I too would like to see discussion of who controls the resulting NPC and some expansion on summoning a specific being and it's inherent advantages and disadvantages. Even the summon fred the cop example it would be more convenient to always get friend who you could form some of the team with instead of baffled random cop that you'd have to explain what's going on too each time but if Fred's taken down he's not available as Hugh Neilson observed and conceivably Fred could be killed... so would Summon act as Resurrection...?

I like to run it as Summon Beings are NPCs even if they're loyal to the player completely they may not be suicidal (at least not without convincing), might misunderstand situations or do things that well intentioned but not the optimum course of action some times, basically at high loyalty they're Followers you can call to you. Duplicates are extensions of the PC and under full player control.

I'd also like to see some attention given to the idea of using Summon to "create" objects, vehicles and that sort of thing.

[The Main Man]

I'm in the camp that thinks that Duplication is a form of Summon.

I also agree that there should be discussion about control of such characters.

[BobGreenwade]

I'm in the camp that thinks that Duplication is a form of Summon.

I've never really thought of it that way, but in the interest of reducing the size of the rules without seriously reducing utility I think this would be a good call. A single Modifier (or, at most, one Advantage and one Limitation) to make Summon function as Duplication would do a lot of good in this regard.

[Steve Long]

Hey folx! It's time for me to start reading all the 6E threads, and that means I need to lock them.

Hopefully 15 months has been plenty of time for anyone who wanted to have a say, to have a say. So please, don't start up other threads to try to continue discussions, send me PMs with points you "just have to make," or anything like that. It's time for y'all to sit back, relax, have a frosty beverage, and let me get 6E written.

We definitely appreciate everyone's interest, participation, and ideas! I'm looking forward to reading the posts and seeing what nuggets of wisdom lurk therein. I have no doubt 6E is going to be even better than it would have been because of our fans' enthusiastic efforts at providing us with input and suggestions.