Powers Issues -- L-R

[Steve Long]

Hi folx! Here are some thoughts about Powers that begin with L-R that have occurred to me over the years, along with my brief thoughts on them. I’m posting them here to stimulate discussion, but not to limit or restrict it. These aren’t necessarily all the issues about these Powers that could be considered, nor the only thoughts about them. Feel free to post anything here that you think is relevant and reasonably constructive; you don’t have to limit yourself to what I’ve posted.

Regardless of whatever opinion I post on an idea, I’m always willing to be convinced otherwise if you think you can do it. The fact that I’m posting an opinion doesn’t necessarily mean my mind’s made up on an issue; it just indicates my current thinking on the subject.

Periodically I may post other questions and thoughts that occur to me.


Q: Should Mental Powers provide Mental Awareness for free?

Steve’s Thoughts: In the spirit of removing the concept of Figured Characteristics, it would be consistent to remove this “freebie” from Mental Powers. I won’t say I’m totally sold on it, but it’s definitely worth considering.


Q: Should Mental Defense provide EGO/5 in defense for free?

Steve’s Thoughts: In the spirit of removing the concept of Figured Characteristics, it would be consistent to remove this “freebie” from Mental Defense. I won’t say I’m totally sold on it, but it’s definitely worth considering. At a guess, it was intended to put Mental Defense on a par with PD and ED, both of which are derived from a Primary Characteristic. If we stop doing that for PD and ED, we should stop it for Mental Defense. (See the Characteristics post for the question “Should Mental Defense be a Characteristic?”.)


Q: Should Missile Deflection and Reflection be changed?

Steve’s Thoughts: I think so. I wrote a whole HEROglyphs column in DH #38 describing some of the problems I see with this Power, including: you’re paying points for something that Dodge essentially lets you do for free; its effectiveness is based on special effects (deflect thrown, deflect arrows, etc.) rather than a game effect; the basing of Reflection on Deflection causes some problems.

I’m not necessarily saying that any of the ideas in my DH #38 column are the solutions to MD&R’s problems, but I think they need to be solved to make the Power worthwhile.

[JmOz]

One idea I had on Missile Reflection/deflection a while back was to make it based on defence type instead of special effect, so you would buy Physical or Energy or Power, etc. Each for 10 points. I also considered some form of Unified F/X so all magic or all fire powers...

[McCoy]

Could we bring back Regeneration as its own power? Pleasepleasepleaseplease?

[OzMike]

I think that luck as a power needs attention. Perhaps if the probability alternation power is introduced then you can use the mechanics as defined by that and introduce things like No Range, Self Only, 0 End, Persistent to it to make it work ...

... sorry for the pause, the wife came home and I had to do the dishes...

...anyway, over the dishes I was thinking that perhaps there is an existing power that best simulates the minor effects that luck can grant - Change Environment.

I should give that one some thought... hmmm...

[nexus]

Bring back Regeneration as its own power (with the Regrew limb and Resurrection Adders). Clumping it under Aid is cumbersome and somewhat counterintuitive.

[steamteck]

Agreeing with Nexus and McCoy on regeneration here but not that big an issue to me.

[Kdansky]

Q: Should Mental Powers provide Mental Awareness for free?
Q: Should Mental Defense provide EGO/5 in defense for free?

Soooo totally against freebies here. You name the reasons: MD is a figured stat (and a very questionable one at that, since MC and MI and Telepathy already go straight against EGO, they now go against EGO*1.2. Pointless, really. MA is just a sense, everyone else buys their senses too.

Q: Should Missile Deflection and Reflection be changed?

Yep. Deflection is basically 20 points for a ranged adder to the block maneuver. Highly questionable why this is required. Also, as you say: I can define my special effect at creation (and bullet vs thrown has the same cost), and then my enemy cannot deflect it? Eh what? If he takes some limitation (not against special Effect X) that makes sense, but the general case should include all.

[The Main Man]

I still like the alternate Missile Deflection rules from TUEP and I think that they should become the new definitive rules.

On the other hand, maybe Missile Deflection and its ilk could become a Naked Advantage that is applied to Block.

[Kdansky]

Luck: Make the default one of the re-rolling methods or the "add some number to some dice", not the very GM-chooses-method, and possibly some more examples which are not Luck, but "keen senses", "high adrenaline", limited luck (only for blocks) or some-such. I really like reroll/roll fudge systems, because it gives you interesting options all the time. Also make the rules clearer on how often one rolls the luck dice. Could also be a skill which decreases (if you pass your 13- luck roll, it becomes 12-, and you get to reroll whatever you want), something like the Team Reroll in Blood Bowl. (rules free on the net)
I'm a lot for renaming it or even making it a central stat/characteristic. Yes, it's very un-hero, but it's cool! Also, it works well with disadvantages (complications).

I could also take a split up of luck and "reroll power". Edge in Battletech did that. Many systems have it, it works well and is cool.

[Edsel]

I printed off all of Steve's original posts in all of the 6th Edition threads and spent hours reading them last night and thinking. It is amazing how little I came up with to respond with though. However the opinions in this post are based only on what Steve has posted in message #1 of this thread, I haven't been influenced by what others have posted subsequently since I haven't read them yet. I will try to keep my comments brief since there is a hellava lot to read in these discussions.

Q: Should Mental Powers provide Mental Awareness for free?

No. It makes sense that it should have to be paid for separately.

Q: Should Mental Defense provide EGO/5 in defense for free?

No. I should work like other defenses and be bought up from zero.

Q: Should Missile Deflection and Reflection be changed?

No. I have no problem with the current rules.

[Vondy]

Q: Should Mental Powers provide Mental Awareness for free?

Its an exotic sense group that probably has sub-categories and should be purchased like any other exotic sense.

Q: Should Mental Defense provide EGO/5 in defense for free?

No. Why is this in the rules again?

Q: Should Missile Deflection and Reflection be changed?

I would argue that your blocking at range, but at the same time, the power is currently wonky and a special effect masquerading as a power. It could be expressed as an adder or modifier for other powers (permeable force wall, etc).

[Vondy]

Now, I have two issues.

1) Mental Powers and their effect tables (Ego, Ego+10, Etc).

This strikes me as a really wonky mechanic that tends to make mentalists totally ineffective or giant mind-shredders who seldom fail. There has to be some middle ground that can be found. I don't know how to do this, but I'm really uncomfortable with mental powers as they are currently expressed. I tend to use talents based on detects-senses with opposed rolls for telepathy in heroic games because of it (with resistance instead of mental defense). I've done similar things for mind control.

Now, with that said: I don't propose what I've been doing works for most genres (or mental illusions, which could just be images BOECV or a combination of other powers), but its more streamlined and very effective for pulp, sci-fi and swords and sorcery. It would NOT work for supers or some high-end psionics approaches, but I really do feel the "levels of effect" method needs a serious re-evaluation.

2) Regeneration.

My complaint is not the one you might surmise. I do think regen is a distinct enough application to merit being its own power, but I can live with it as a part of healing. The issue I have with it is the time chart: the time chart isn't really linear, but fakes an exponential progression based on common measures of time. My issue with this is, any slow regen past 1 minute is hard to model precisely, esp. with purchasing dice, without reworking the time chart. Either the time chart needs to be looked at again, or we need some method to easily and quickly model a standardized slow regen that doesn't take a bunch of fiddling. Also, a shorthand for this power would be much appreciated. Its very long to write based on what it does right now.

[The Main Man]

In regards to classes of minds in mental powers, I tend to gauge a character's class of mind depending on how they role-play.

Machine = Dependent on instructions and programming; unable to function without such input.

Animal = Independent, but limited by instincts and characteristic motivations.

Human = Independent and capable of abstract thoughts, like you or me.

Alien = Anything under Machine, above Human, or in between. Bacteria, Plants, and Gods would all be Aliens if properly role-played.

[Chris Goodwin]

Agreeing with Nexus and McCoy on regeneration here but not that big an issue to me.

Agreed with all of the above.

[Edsel]

Could we bring back Regeneration as its own power? Pleasepleasepleaseplease?

I support this. Regeneration is too common of a power in comic book, horror and scifi themes. It ought to be its own separate power.