Powers Issues -- L-R

[ajackson]

Pretty much all of the Environmental Effects on pgs 438 through 442 can be created with power builds (some more complicated than others). However, the appropriate Life Support (as pointed out on pg 443) explicitly defends against them. Why would Electricity be any different?

To some degree, it isn't, and there's a decent argument for eliminating most forms of 'safe environment' life support and replacing them with limited defense, or possibly a 'defense vs SFX' power (i.e. it acts like any defense type, but only against that special effect), since that conveniently eliminates a lot of arguments about just what is an environmental effect and what is an attack.

However, to the degree to which there is a difference, it is this: 'heat' and 'cold' are common well-defined environmental conditions that most campaigns will run into. 'vacuum' and 'radiation' are common well-defined environmental conditions that a large subset of campaigns will run into. 'Electricity' is a poorly-defined condition that will essentially never occur outside of a plot device or NPC power.

[ajackson]

How can I more easily create Electrical Whips, Tazers, Static Fields etc without resorting to overly complex builds.

Energy Blast, Stun Only. Seriously, tazers aren't NNDs, armor stops them just fine.

[ghost-angel]

*sigh* yeah - nevermind. I'm sure Steve gets where I'm going.
(I build Tazers as Entangle personally, which ALSO isn't the point I was making.)

[mudpyr8]

Movement per Turn

Get away with move per phase altogether. Purchase move per turn.

Assuming that "pushing" accounts for 20-25% of world record movement in a sprint, and is Non-Combat (NC), we get:

Swimming base 0m, NCM 4m, World Record 10m (buying 6m over NCM; 102 sec is record for 200m freestyle = 24m/turn NC)
1 pt = +1m

Running base 24m, NCM 36m, World Record 46m (buying 10m over NCM, 131 sec is record for 1000m = 92m/turn NC, 9.69 sec is record for 100m = 123m/turn NC)
1 pt = +2m

Leaping base is 1m, 1pt = +0.25m, NCM 3m, World Record 4m (buying 1m over NCM; 8.95m is record). Because the points are so low, it might be easier to define leaping as non-combat with a base of 2m, 1pt = +0.5, NCM 6m, World Record 8m (buying 2m over NCM), and requires a half move in the phase before the leap. Combat leaping would be half this, standing half, and vertical half.

So we dove in and tested Movement per Turn and, well, it didn't work out so well. The nature of the speed chart really prevents it from being smooth and creates all sorts of weirdness.

For example, if you have two characters, one with SPD 2 and 24m/turn (standard) and one with SPD 4 and 36m/turn, if the most you can move in a single phase is Move/SPD, then in Phase 12 the SPD 2 guy can actually move farther than the SPD 4 higher move character and thus reach a close object more quickly. That doesn't work at all.

If you started the turn on segment 1, that might solve the issue, come to think of it.

However, thinking this through, there is a very simple solution that gets us to near real-world results: 1" = 1m. Apply this to everything, movement, range, area affect. This was the result of our playtest that we are now going with and so far it is working fabulously. It does mean that your average person is a bit slower than normal (24m NC/turn instead of a more appropriate 60-70m), but I suppose that balances with faster people moving at more realistic speeds.

Anyway, still needs some work but that might work out in the end.

[Lord Liaden]

Just a brief suggestion regarding Leaping.

The "hang time" in the air for noncombat Leaping, particularly as Noncombat Multipliers are added, is inconsistent with Noncombat Movement via other forms, and makes Leaping a poor choice for a "travel" Power compared to other Movement. If you intend to keep this feature of Leaping, e.g. as a game-balance factor due to its cheap cost, perhaps you could allow some sort of "Rapid" Modifier that players could purchase to offset that additional time in the air, as you can already buy off the inaccuracy of Leaping. Alternatively, you could follow the example of Teleportation, where any Noncombat Movement inherently requires an additional Phase, but that time doesn't increase with further NCM Adders.

[IndianaJoe3]

For example, if you have two characters, one with SPD 2 and 24m/turn (standard) and one with SPD 4 and 36m/turn, if the most you can move in a single phase is Move/SPD, then in Phase 12 the SPD 2 guy can actually move farther than the SPD 4 higher move character and thus reach a close object more quickly. That doesn't work at all.

How about giving everyone the same fraction (say, a quarter) of their per-turn movement in the initial Segment 12? Fast guy (from your example) can move 9m, slow guy can move 6m, and the glitch is disposed of.

[Klaus Mogensen]

How about giving everyone the same fraction (say, a quarter) of their per-turn movement in the initial Segment 12? Fast guy (from your example) can move 9m, slow guy can move 6m, and the glitch is disposed of.

Or how about you can decide how much of your movement-per-turn allotment you use every time you've got a phase? I.e., you can burn everything in a single phase if you want, or distribute it more or less evenly among all your phases.

Or slightly more complex, but less staccato: Divide a turn into four rounds of three segments. You get to move your movement allotment once per round, no matter how many phases you've got that round. If you don't have a phase, movement takes place after all other actions for that round; otherwise you can distribute it as you want between your phases for that round.

Or redefine SPD as the number of attacks you can make in a turn. In a 3-segment round, you may move your allotment and make as many attacks as your SPD allows for that round, all at once. This will actually simplify things greatly with no great bunching of attacks except for very high SPDs.

- Klaus

[IndianaJoe3]

Here are my final thoughts on Powers (L-R).

Lack of Weakness
LoW is now a Talent.

Life Support
Safe Environment may now be purchased for any environmental effect.
LS: Uncommon Environment - 1 point
LS: Common Environment - 2 points
LS: Very Common Environment - 3 points
Can recover END normally - +2 pts

[JamesG]

I’m not sure if the Piercing Power from Dark Champions is being considered for inclusion in the base rules, but if it is I think its cost needs to be looked at.

Piercing is essentially a “limited” form of the attack it is applied to. The difference is points in the attack in excess of the target’s defense go towards damaging the target, while excess Piercing points have no effect. So a point of Piercing should always cost less than a point of damage for the attack power it is applied to. But for many of the types of Piercing described in Dark Champions, the cost of Piercing is higher.

For instance, the cost of a point of Piercing against normal defenses is 2 CPs. But a normal damage attack is 5 CPs per d6, for an average cost of 5/3.5=1.43 CPs per point. There isn’t a reason to buy Piercing at a cost of 2 CPs a point, since regular damage is cheaper and more useful.

Instead of basing the cost of Piercing on the Defense being Pierced, it should be based on the per d6 cost of the base attack.

For instance:

For 1d6=5 CP attacks, Piercing could cost 4 CPs for 3 points of Piercing. (Making the cost 1 for 1 would probably be too good a deal).

For 1d6=10 CP attacks, Piercing could cost 5 CPs for 2 points of Piercing.

For 1d6=15 CP attacks, Piercing could cost 4 CPs for 1 points of Piercing.

Since the cost of Piercing is added to the attack before Advantages are applied, we don’t need to worry about how Advantages impact the CP cost per d6 of the attack. The cost of Piercing would simply be calculated based on the CP cost per d6 of the base attack, without regard to power modifiers.

[JamesG]

I think a discussion on modeling a “sealed environment” should be added to the rules for Life Support. For instance someone in a totally sealed spacesuit is immune to all diseases, poisons, etc as long as they are airborne (or spaceborne). But if he’s injected with a disease, or bitten by a poisonous snake, he has no LS against those attacks (assuming the attacks penetrate the suit and then his skin, of course). Also, someone with a sealed helmet, but who is otherwise normally dressed, is immune to toxins etc that must be inhaled, but would not be immune to toxins that can be absorbed through the skin. Probably all that is needed is appropriate limitations for the different levels of “sealed” (like head only, full body, etc.) and some discussion on the topic in general.

[Klaus Mogensen]

For 1d6=5 CP attacks, Piercing could cost 4 CPs for 3 points of Piercing. (Making the cost 1 for 1 would probably be too good a deal).

I'm not sure it would be too good. After all, buying Piercing points instead of damage dice makes the damage less volatile - you're less likely to roll X points above average, and hence less likely to stun or do Body.

Let's look at a simple example: The likelihood of doing Body with 2d6 vs. 10 rDEF compared with the likelihood of doing Body with 1d6K vs. 5 rDEF (i.e., 10 rDEF reduced to 5 by 5 points of Piercing at 3 points each).

2d6 vs. 10 rDEF: average Body through defenses is 1/9. Max Body is 2.
1d6 vs. 5 rDEF: average Body through defenses is 1/6. Max Body is 1.
Not that big a difference - and the Stun will be much greater for the 2d6 roll.

- Klaus

[The Main Man]

At the least, Piercing could perhaps be presented as an Adder.

[Steve Long]

Hey folx! It's time for me to start reading all the 6E threads, and that means I need to lock them.

Hopefully 15 months has been plenty of time for anyone who wanted to have a say, to have a say. So please, don't start up other threads to try to continue discussions, send me PMs with points you "just have to make," or anything like that. It's time for y'all to sit back, relax, have a frosty beverage, and let me get 6E written.

We definitely appreciate everyone's interest, participation, and ideas! I'm looking forward to reading the posts and seeing what nuggets of wisdom lurk therein. I have no doubt 6E is going to be even better than it would have been because of our fans' enthusiastic efforts at providing us with input and suggestions.