Perks And Talents Issues

[Steve Long]

Hi folx! Here are some thoughts about Perks and Talents that have occurred to me over the years, along with my brief thoughts on them. I’m posting them here to stimulate discussion, but not to limit or restrict it. These aren’t necessarily all the issues about Perks and Talents that could be considered, nor the only thoughts about them. Feel free to post anything here that you think is relevant and reasonably constructive; you don’t have to limit yourself to what I’ve posted.

Regardless of whatever opinion I post on an idea, I’m always willing to be convinced otherwise if you think you can do it. The fact that I’m posting an opinion doesn’t necessarily mean my mind’s made up on an issue; it just indicates my current thinking on the subject.

Periodically I may post other questions and thoughts that occur to me.


Q: Should Followers, Vehicles, and Bases be costed differently?

Steve’s Thoughts: I think the general cost of 1 point per 5 Character Points is fine, but I also think that a couple of specific changes need to be made. First, as with Summon, I don’t think that any of these Perks should get a cost reduction based on their Disadvantages. The Disadvantages generally taken for them typically don’t in any meaningful way inhibit their usefulness to the character.

Second, I think it will simplify things mathematically to get rid of the concept that the cost changes if the points used to build the Perk exceed the character’s own points. That creates annoying math oddities that are best avoided. I’d rather just have the flat 1-for-5 cost throughout and put in a warning note for the GM (and perhaps even a Caution Sign) explaining that it’s probably not a good idea to let a hero buy a Follower who’s significantly more powerful than the hero himself.


Q: Should we add or remove any Talents?

Steve’s Thoughts: I like Talents and think they add a lot of flavor to a character, so I don’t mind expanding the core list if it seems helpful. We’ve published some in more than one genre book — like Animal Friendship, Deadly Blow, and Hotshot Pilot — that might be worth including in the main rulebook because they can apply to many genres and character types. The “Strong-Willed” Talent mentioned above is another good possibility.

On the other hand, should we remove any? One could argue that some of them, like Perfect Pitch and Lightsleep, aren’t useful or common enough to justify including in the core rules.

[nexus]

Absolute Range Sense could be given some minor mechanical effect.

[Gideon]

The talent I have issue with is Universal Translator.

I think it far to inexpensive for what it does (or can do) in a campaign.

The rest, I like as is. Even light sleep and perfect pitch.

[OzMike]

Random Thought...

I feel that some fringe benefits related to ranking within organisations would be better represented as a form of the Reputation perk from 5th. Or maybe contact. Or something. But at the moment they are quite nebulous and don't really explain how they work. The Reputation mechanic might fix that.

[steamteck]

The talent I have issue with is Universal Translator.

I think it far to inexpensive for what it does (or can do) in a campaign.

The rest, I like as is. Even light sleep and perfect pitch.

depends on the campaign, I find it too expensive for the utility.

[steamteck]

Hi


Q: Should Followers, Vehicles, and Bases be costed differently?

Steve’s Thoughts: I think the general cost of 1 point per 5 Character Points is fine, but I also think that a couple of specific changes need to be made. First, as with Summon, I don’t think that any of these Perks should get a cost reduction based on their Disadvantages. The Disadvantages generally taken for them typically don’t in any meaningful way inhibit their usefulness to the character.



On the other hand, should we remove any? One could argue that some of them, like Perfect Pitch and Lightsleep, aren’t useful or common enough to justify including in the core rules.

You must use or design followers differently than me , because the disadvantages make a BIG difference in my games. Not having disadvantages on summon has always made it fairly cost ineffective to me.

You're kidding on lightsleep , right? One of the best talents an adventurer can invest in. perfect pitch is cool but probably only worth one or two points at most. I would prefer to not remove too many options like talents. There are other ways to streamline things

[Comic]

Perfect Pitch is probably perennially the most popular talent in campaigns I've seen. It works well for such a wide variety of concepts, uses and situations, clarifies so many questions, and helps GMs settle issues easily. From justifying Find Weakness with sonic powers to imitating the sentry, to being a famous world class diva, it's very useful and useful across genres.

Lightsleep.. not so much. Outside of Fantasy Hero, I don't know whether GMs are shy of being charged with player abuse by attacking them in their sleep, or if players are confident no GM would do such a dastardly thing. Maybe it's unheroic to sleep, or it's so inexpensive to not need to sleep or to have someone to watch over you that the talent isn't as attractive in comparison. It seems like one of those talents built to give 'normal' people an equivalent to a super power (like Resistance compared to Mental Defense).. Which isn't really a compelling rationale, is it?

[Hugh Neilson]

I'm probably in the minority, but I'd prefer to see Talents presented as "example powers". That's how they are constructed, so that's how it makes sense to use them.

That said, I see no reason any of them should be removed, just presented differently as examples of what you can do with the Power rules.

[eternal_sage]

first (see my Skills posts) but i think all skills that are not rolled and cannot be increased (Rapid Attack, Two Weapon Fighting, Defensive Maneuver, etc) should be made Talents. second, i feel that most, if not all, of the "Genre Talents", i.e. the Talents from the Genre books, should be included in the primary text, because i often find myself including FH talents (like animal speech) into Champions characters, and so forth. And as far as Followers, etc are concerned, i'm all for the annoying "more points than you" price differentiation thing. imho, they should either be not allowed by the text, or GMs should be strongly discouraged from allowing them, and let it go at that.

[Vondy]

I am a talent hound and strongly prefer to construct genre or package specific talents to use for heroic games than to use open-ended powers, which is more appropriate for superheroic games, IMO. The more talents the merrier. On the other hand, talents are essentially a very convenient shorthand for things built with skills or powers. As such, I would present the talents section as an alternative way of expressing the extant powers and skills formats and treat the talents theirin as examples. If you really wanted a super-extensive set of talents, they could be included in THE ULTIMATE TALENT. In terms of "all the rules in one book" (my mantra) this would be consistent because talents are built with existing mechanics (skills and powers). It would be no different than the until super-powers database, but for cook talents. And I would pay blood for that book, esp. if it incl. perks, though an Ultimate Perquisite would probably come in as a strong draw for me as well.

In terms of Perks I would like to see an option for Contact that allows for "this guy has a menagerie of old and colorful acquaintances..." It would use the X3 multiplier and the character would have to pay for the most useful and most well disposed possible contact, but accept that not all contacts will be that good, and sometimes the GM may say no. This allows a laundry list of contacts from adventures past, while giving the GM flexibility enough to throw something in to move the plot along (and make the players life "interesting" on occassion). "You rotten scoundrel, I never thought you'd show your face here again after you...."

I would also like to see some money options: activation or skill rolls, possible modifiers or adders, etc.

As for talents, I would like to see a talent for modifying interaction rolls. The default would probably be "good looking," but it might also be defined as other special effects like resistance is, which would impact how it was applied. Mike Hammer was defined as ugly, but still had a way with women because they responded to what amounted to "animal magnetism."

[Edsel]

I printed off all of Steve's original posts in all of the 6th Edition threads and spent hours reading them last night and thinking. It is amazing how little I came up with to respond with though. However the opinions in this post are based only on what Steve has posted in message #1 of this thread, I haven't been influenced by what others have posted subsequently since I haven't read them yet. I will try to keep my comments brief since there is a hellava lot to read in these discussions.

Q: Should Followers, Vehicles, and Bases be costed differently?

I pretty much agree with Steve's reasoning on this issue.

Q: Should we add or remove any Talents?

I see no reason to eliminate any, even if they are obscure they serve as examples for people who are building their own.

[Balok]

While they are in a sense Example Powers, I'd oppose moving them into the Power descriptions because I think that would make them too hard to find for folks whose games use a lot of them. They should probably appear after the Power descriptions, though.

[Chris Goodwin]

I vote for the Ultimate Talent!

[Lizard]

Q: Should we add or remove any Talents?

Aren't pretty much all Talents buildable with the core rules? If so, how do they differ from pre-defined "small" powers? Given that, they properly belong in genre books, apart from a set of "Everygenre" talents which are broadly universal.

[eternal_sage]

i agree, and in fact, in HEROic level games, my players don't even get to look at the Powers section of the book. they tell me what they want, imake them a talent to cover it, and we move on. the only time my players "roll their own" is for supers games, and those are somewhat rare.