Perks And Talents Issues

[Guzalot]

I've always thought that COM was a useless characteristic. IMO it can best be represented as a perk. 1 pt=attractive, 2=good looking...5=unearthly beauty or something to that effect.

[OzMike]

I've always thought that COM was a useless characteristic. IMO it can best be represented as a perk. 1 pt=attractive, 2=good looking...5=unearthly beauty or something to that effect.

And could be based around the same costing as reputation, with similar effects.

[Lord Liaden]

Regarding Perks, I would like to raise, as an issue for discussion, the fact that HERO System costs are greatly biased toward abilities that are useful in combat versus abilities which are not. For example, for the cost of a 5d6 Energy Blast, a character can have practically unlimited wealth and be the head of state of his own country.

[steamteck]

I've always thought that COM was a useless characteristic. IMO it can best be represented as a perk. 1 pt=attractive, 2=good looking...5=unearthly beauty or something to that effect.

Not useless in my game. we use it extensively. I think it should be expanded upon not dropped.

[Guzalot]

Not useless in my game. we use it extensively. I think it should be expanded upon not dropped.

Was there ever an instance where a character in your campaign was asked to make a COM roll? Or is it more of a roleplaying thing?

[nexus]

Was there ever an instance where a character in your campaign was asked to make a COM roll? Or is it more of a roleplaying thing?

I can't speak for steamteck but I have characters make Com rolls are complimentary to some social skills pretty often.

[Guzalot]

I can't speak for steamteck but I have characters make Com rolls are complimentary to some social skills pretty often.

Makes sense to me. Couldn't a perk accomplish much the same thing? I'm just throwing it out there for discussion and not so much arguing the "right or wrong" of it.

Unlike other characteristics, COM does not have a single skill which is based of it. Not only that, but it doesn't affect a single figured characteristic. INT helps your PER roll, EGO helps your ECV. COM...nada...

[nexus]

Makes sense to me. Couldn't a perk accomplish much the same thing? I'm just throwing it out there for discussion and not so much arguing the "right or wrong" of it.

A perk could accomplish much the same thing but you'd lose the comparative number aspect of a characteristic. Everyone with Beautiful level 1 is the same. There is some value (IMO) in the additional role playing aspects of a 13 vs 15. Not a huge one I concede but one that I and my groups have enjoyed.

I forgot to mention, certain types of Pre attacks.

Unlike other characteristics, COM does not have a single skill which is based of it. Not only that, but it doesn't affect a single figured characteristic. INT helps your PER roll, EGO helps your ECV. COM...nada...

What skills are based on Con or Ego? (Seriously, I might be missing something). And with the talk of decoupling Figured Characteristics, Figured won't be an issue if that comes to pass.

Edit: looking in the core the Characteristics that have Skills based on them are Int, Pre and Dex. Str, Con, Body and Ego don't have any. I think Veil and Cloak in the Ultimate Mentalist were based on Ego. Hoist was Strength or Int and Magic skill can be Based on Ego instead of Int. But those are sort of optional (or more optional than the corebook material) and you could make up skills based on Com if desired.

[Guzalot]

What skills are based on Con or Ego? (Seriously, I might be missing something). And with the talk of decoupling Figured Characteristics, Figured won't be an issue if that comes to pass.

EGO = ECV and willpower rolls to resist/break mental attacks and/or PRE attacks.

CON has a numerical value to see if a character is "stunned' by an attack, hence it must be quantified even if there are no figured characteristics.

COM? Nothing that I can think of.

[steamteck]

Was there ever an instance where a character in your campaign was asked to make a COM roll? Or is it more of a roleplaying thing?

I can speak for Steamteck and I have characters make Com rolls are complimentary to some social skills pretty often.

The perk option doesn't give that relative number I like. I really find it a big hole in GURPS. There can be no most beautiful in the land when all you have is a few layers of perk.

[Guzalot]

There can be no most beautiful in the land when all you have is a few layers of perk.

Point taken

[nexus]

EGO = ECV and willpower rolls to resist/break mental attacks and/or PRE attacks.

CON has a numerical value to see if a character is "stunned' by an attack, hence it must be quantified even if there are no figured characteristics.

I was asking about Skills since that's what was brought up. Obviously the characteristics have a mechanical function.

COM? Nothing that I can think of.

Com can serve as a complimentary roll for Interaction Skills and certain types of Pre attacks thats suggested in the core book. It's GM discretion but because some groups chose not to use it doesn't mean its not a valid use for Com.

[nexus]

I can speak for Steamteck and I have characters make Com rolls are complimentary to some social skills pretty often.

The perk option doesn't give that relative number I like. I really find it a big hole in GURPS. There can be no most beautiful in the land when all you have is a few layers of perk.

That's pretty much how I feel about it too. Unfortunately, I think all this is moot because Steve Long seems pretty set on dumping Com.

[Steve Long]

I think all this is moot

If it were moot, I wouldn't have bothered taking the time to create this forum. I'm perfectly open to good arguments that change my mind. I have yet to see any such argument re: keeping Comeliness, but that doesn't mean changing my mind is impossible.

[BobGreenwade]

Q: Should Followers, Vehicles, and Bases be costed differently?

Steve’s Thoughts: I think the general cost of 1 point per 5 Character Points is fine, but I also think that a couple of specific changes need to be made. First, as with Summon, I don’t think that any of these Perks should get a cost reduction based on their Disadvantages. The Disadvantages generally taken for them typically don’t in any meaningful way inhibit their usefulness to the character.

Second, I think it will simplify things mathematically to get rid of the concept that the cost changes if the points used to build the Perk exceed the character’s own points. That creates annoying math oddities that are best avoided. I’d rather just have the flat 1-for-5 cost throughout and put in a warning note for the GM (and perhaps even a Caution Sign) explaining that it’s probably not a good idea to let a hero buy a Follower who’s significantly more powerful than the hero himself.

I'm ambivalent on the issue of whether to count Disadvantages, so I won't really weigh in on this. I can see both sides. But I'm with you on the over-cost issue; it makes characters like the Golden Age Johnny Thunder much easier to build.

On another Perks-related note, I'm of the opinion that Contacts are currently a tad too expensive. I'm not sure if others would agree with me, though, so I'll see whether I'm alone before trying to sell any changes.

Q: Should we add or remove any Talents?

Steve’s Thoughts: I like Talents and think they add a lot of flavor to a character, so I don’t mind expanding the core list if it seems helpful. We’ve published some in more than one genre book — like Animal Friendship, Deadly Blow, and Hotshot Pilot — that might be worth including in the main rulebook because they can apply to many genres and character types. The “Strong-Willed” Talent mentioned above is another good possibility.

On the other hand, should we remove any? One could argue that some of them, like Perfect Pitch and Lightsleep, aren’t useful or common enough to justify including in the core rules.

Last item first: I've long been of the opinion that Absolute Range Sense, Absolute Time Sense, Perfect Pitch, and other Talents should be rolled together into a single Talent called Exact Measure. This could also allow for characters able to tell things like the exact weight of something they're holding, the exact ambient temperature, the exact color of something they're looking at, and so forth.

As for adding any, I'd support Strong-Willed and Deadly Blow, and possibly Animal Friendship, though the current build for Hotshot Pilot would make it impractical for an all-genre book.