Perks And Talents Issues

[steamteck]

If we model it after the Rep perk it would allow for infinite levels, it just would have moved from characteristics to Perk

Beautiful+1d6 PRE, +1 to PRE Skills, in appropriate situations

I don't like that nearly as much but I could live with that. It not a bad compromise. But like Nexus said it seems reinventing the wheel needlessly. Also a little to GURPS for me where things get muddy in the wrong places for me.

[Chris Goodwin]

But if you have to have one (for purposes of answering the question when someone asks a magic mirror) then I don't see why it can't still be a perk. There can only be one "Head of State" in the kingdom too....

Slightly OT: I used to have a Perk: Best in the West. You need to have whatever it is you're Best at in the Best range. Having Best in the West means you literally are the best. So, someone with, say, 26 COM and Best in the West could literally be the most beautiful in the land.

[MicroMike]

Absolute Range Sense and Bump of Direction: Can we combine these into one talent?

Double Jointed: Trash. Buy up Contortionist and Breakfall rolls.

Lightsleep: Trash. For the same cost, I can buy LS: Diminished Sleep: No need to sleep at all.

Resistance: Trash. Buy Skill Levels with EGO.

My .02

[Polaris]

Regarding Perks, I would like to raise, as an issue for discussion, the fact that HERO System costs are greatly biased toward abilities that are useful in combat versus abilities which are not. For example, for the cost of a 5d6 Energy Blast, a character can have practically unlimited wealth and be the head of state of his own country.

I was reading thru the thread with the intent to offer my own suggestion regarding the costing of various perks... in particular 'Wealth'.

I think that two perks in particular (Head of State and Unlimited Wealth) should cost more points. I realize that wealth does not impact combat directly, but when you have the ability to hire henchmen, arm them with some exceptional equipment, buy information on the streets at a price that few criminals would refuse, etc... it can be a very impacting perk.

As an alternative idea, perhaps wealth could be done with $1,000 per week being worth something like 3 points, then each additional 3 points doubles the income? This would mean that 30 points the person would have 512,000 per week... okay, perhaps the points should be adjusted. The basic idea tho is that there is no such thing as 'unlimited wealth'.

The obvious disadvantage to this alternative is that it could cause some to get knee deep in bookeeping (keeping track of their weekly money amount).

I do believe, however, that the cost of some of the perks (extreme wealth, head of state, diplomatic immunity should be increased).

Respectfully,
William

[nexus]

If it were moot, I wouldn't have bothered taking the time to create this forum. I'm perfectly open to good arguments that change my mind. I have yet to see any such argument re: keeping Comeliness, but that doesn't mean changing my mind is impossible.

I think that particular topic is essentially moot. As far I can see every argument that can be made about has been made, the majority opinion seems to be to remove it, etc so I feel it's beating a dead horse. This forum is for more than discussion of removing Com. I'm not saying your unwilling to change your mind on any subject otherwise I would not be here but that one seems like a done deal. There is a point when discussion/debating starts to seems like beating a dead horse and its best to leave it lay. If someone else convinces you, that'll be great.

[ajackson]

For certain classes of perk, such as wealth or political perks, the cost should really depend on what it gets you -- i.e. rather than wealth itself costing a lot, you'd just say "Wealth: gives a bonus to certain types of skills, such as Bribery. Is also suitable as a special effect for other bonuses, such as paid followers, a base, etc". A lot of Perks can really be implemented as limited levels with Presence-based skills.

[moquif]

About Followers 3 things:
I'd allow disadvantages as long as they actually inhibit their usefulness. Even if it doesn't happen often, it should be allowed. For example "Loyal to PC" would be worth 0 points but "Harmful secret: working for enemy" or "reports PC's actions to superiors" should be worth something. Likewise if the follower never enters combat, "Psych Lim: Coward" would not be worth as much as if the follower was a squire, sword bearer, combat medic, or otherwise was expected to face danger just like everyone else.

Followers would not gain XP, instead the PC would be allowed to spend his own XP to increase the points of the follower.

Add a fourth item for Artifical Constructs. Calling something like a computer a follower and have it gain XP doesn't make sense especially when artifical constructs can be upgraded so easily. The term "experience points" implies having the ability to learn. That's why Monsters, Robots, and the like have Bonus instead of XP.


For Talents, I always considered talents to be 1) a way for Heroic level characters to have powers and 2) cover abilities that don't really fit under the rules. It's much like how they're being treated now. I would include the list of those that don't really fit under the existing rules and note some of the more common "powers as talents". Then I would encourage players to come up with their Talents own with a limit of say 20 active points and have the GM approval. It would keep the pages down in the core rule book (which would be big enough) and give the genre rule books something to have.

BESM has an "attribute" called Features which covers all those little things that correspond to different talents and racial abilities that in Hero are bought as powers. Homing Instinct would be bought as a variant of Bump of Direction but instead of knowing which way north is, you know which way a particular location is.

[Enforcer84]

And this is a problem, how?

I don't see how there really CAN be a "most beautiful in the land." Oh sure, I'm fond of stating as if it were an indisputable fact that Kris Zeimer is the most beautiful woman ever photographed, and that Gillian Anderson is the most beautiful woman ever to star in a TV show, but not everyone agrees with me. (Can you believe I can't even FIND photos of Kris Ziemer online!?! And images of that Brittany Pike person are everywhere...)

But if you have to have one (for purposes of answering the question when someone asks a magic mirror) then I don't see why it can't still be a perk. There can only be one "Head of State" in the kingdom too....

Lucius Alexander

The Palindromedary intones: In the end, there can be only One....

It's a problem in that we would like that level of "granularity" with the physical appearance. To some players/GM/HEROphiles, COM is cool.

[dstarfire]

I love talents, and I'd like to see more of them. They're a great way to add flavor and beneficial quirks.

I'd like to see the 'contacts' perk expanded/modified to better handle mastermind type characters (the ones that know 100 different, unrelated people in 100 different fields)

[Enforcer84]

If we model it after the Rep perk it would allow for infinite levels, it just would have moved from characteristics to Perk

Beutiful +1d6 PRE, +1 to PRE Skills, in appropriate situations

But why? We already have COM and it's nice.

[nexus]

But why? We already have COM and it's nice.

Its also pretty harmless. If you don't want to use it, tell your players don't put points into it and even the GM doesn't no one has too. If you want to do it as Limited Pre, Skill Levels, Reputation or some thing else they tools are there to implement those variation already. Com does have a mechanical function. It's in the books but allot of groups chose not to use it which is cool but I've found many enjoy it. For "useless" stat, I've rarely played with people that didn't put points into it. All dumping it seems to accomplish is depriving the people that like it of the option to use it. Yes, they can reinsert it but that's generally at least slightly more complicated than just not putting points into it/scratching of off the character sheet.

It's not like Exalted's Appearance attribute which has relatively few mechanical functions but gimps your majorly in social actions if its too low.

[steamteck]

My wife and I just played tonight and she made multiple COM rolls in several different scenes. One smoothing things out with the Police inspector. Making the NPC strong jawed hero feel protective of her character. Etc. I double cost every 5 points over 20 and cost COM 1 ans she still has thought it worth it to buy it up to 27.

[Balabanto]

I think that the cost for Followers and Bases should remain the same, with the following caveats.

A vehicle is not a substitute for the player character. The way Vehicles are designed needs to change to reflect the fact that no matter how powerful a PC is, his vehicle provides him with effectively limitless defense. Bases don't suffer from this, because a base is immobile and I can kidnap base DNPC's just as easily as I can kidnap those that belong directly to the hero.

[sbarron]

Its also pretty harmless. If you don't want to use it, tell your players don't put points into it and even the GM doesn't no one has too. ... All dumping it seems to accomplish is depriving the people that like it of the option to use it. Yes, they can reinsert it but that's generally at least slightly more complicated than just not putting points into it/scratching of off the character sheet.

Dumping it would also go a long way toward removing some of the gripes about HERO from the non-HERO-gamers. "Too many stats" is the easy one. "Stats that don't do anything" is another.

HERO's many stats are a clear connection to HERO's gaming roots. And for many of us here, thats a good thing. But trying to get new gamers in means changing with the times, and that means fewer stats. COM is disposible. Every example of its in game use except one (prettiest in the land) involved COM being used as a supplement to Presence. Removing COM as a CHAR and turning it into a bonus (or reduction) to PRE based skills makes perfect sense.

[sbarron]

Lightsleep

Lightsleep could easily be purchased as a bonus to PER...

Lightsleeper: +3 to PER with all Sense Groups, only while asleep (-1), Real Cost: 4.