Why We're Creating The 6th Edition -- Please Read Before Posting

[Hugh Neilson]

The benefits bricks draw frome figured characteristics is part of what many see as the problem--the simple benefits of STR were leading people to sugest increasing its costs due to the figured characteristics. Soits not as much as the change woud hurt bricks, but it would now equalize them in balance to other character types.

I think this belongs on the characteristics thread. However, this comes down to the question of whether you presently find bricks unbalanced or balanced with other character types in their games. I'm not seeing balance problems in my games, and reducing available points for Bricks, or enhancing them for energy projectors, would give me some balance concerns, as discussed on the (rather lengthy) characteristics thread.

[Chris Goodwin]

As we're trying to bring this thread under control,has Steve Long explained why he's getting rid of figured characteristics? How can we counter his reasons if we don't know what they are?

Good reasons to keep them shouldn't be attempts to destroy his arguments. Good reasons to keep them should be reasons why the system needs them. He didn't say "I'm taking them out unless you can destroy my arguments point-by-point in Internet-style back-and-forth." He said, "I am strongly in favor of doing this and intend to implement this change unless I am persuaded otherwise by a particularly convincing argument."

I'm not going to speak for Steve, but from where I sit I think you have a better chance if your particularly convincing argument is one strongly in favor of keeping them, citing good reasons why they should be there. In other words, "Here's why they should stay," not "You're wrong, and here's why, point by point."

I've hammered on this long enough, and will stop hammering. If you want them to stay, then tell Steve they should stay.

[ghost-angel]

As we're trying to bring this thread under control,has Steve Long explained why he's getting rid of figured characteristics? How can we counter his reasons if we don't know what they are?

Don't counter anyone's arguments. Just present your own thoughts on why something should or shouldn't go that Steve's put on the table.

We don't need to debate in these threads. Merely present our ideas for Steve's own consumption.

[Silbeg]

The current best analogy is Book 1 will be the Character Creation Handbook and Book 2 will be the Combat Handbook (with all the Environmental stuff).

I have mixed feelings on the split.

On one hand I like the idea of 1 book being all I ever need.
On the other I think it's a good idea to separate Creation from Play.

I think I have to agree with you, g-a.

First, if they can get the cost of a single book down into the $25-30 range, they will be more competitive price-wise with other RPG books. This enables a player to get the stuff he needs to play the game without having to pay for all the stuff to run a game. Of course, for this to work, there should be at least a small section on combat basics in the chargen book.

Second, the split could enable them to put more detail into the non-chargen section without creating a 1000 page monstrosity (do we really need a book that can stop a .30-06 round? More description of the optional rules, and perhaps more optional rules. They could add sections on how to deal with scaling issues, and the like!

Then, each book could have a "genre-by-genre" section, which touches on what the eventual genre books would expand. In the chargen book (do we know the names of the two books yet?), there could be a couple of characters for each genre, with explanations of the principle of "REASONING FROM SPECIAL EFFECTS", buy building a character in total. In the "combat" book, it can explain issues like scaling, options for grittier combat, etc.

While I am concerned about the obsolescence of my current library, especially if the design of the game radically differs from the current style (which I honestly don't think will happen), I know that the descriptions and examples have only gotten better each time DOJ has released a new book.

Now, I would only hope that the indexes of two books reference each other, somehow. This would be vital in the use of the two books!




And, add to all of that, I could see DOJ releasing a single bound version of the two books, assuming that it hasn't grown in page length beyond the practical means of binding. I could see a HERO 6E exceeding 1000 pages, which would be very impractical to use. So, on this, maybe 2 books would be better from a wear prospective?

[CourtFool]

do we really need a book that can stop a .30-06 round?

Yes. What do you make your office armor out of?

[rjcurrie]

Yes. What do you make your office armor out of?

I find old CRC Handbooks work well.

[st barbara]

The obvious question that comes to mind is "How much will the new version cost ?" 5th Edition was about $aus 90 whenI bought it and is over $100 these days I think. Am I correct in assuming that the new book/books won't be any cheaper than that ? If it takes two new books to play the game (as a minimum) then that is $200 i'd have to outlay ! It might make me sound like some sort of scrooge but it DOES seem expensive.

[Supreme Serpent]

The obvious question that comes to mind is "How much will the new version cost ?" 5th Edition was about $aus 90 whenI bought it and is over $100 these days I think. Am I correct in assuming that the new book/books won't be any cheaper than that ? If it takes two new books to play the game (as a minimum) then that is $200 i'd have to outlay ! It might make me sound like some sort of scrooge but it DOES seem expensive.

If it ends up as two books for the core rules, I expect that the individual cost will be a bit lower - it's not going to be two books the size of 5th ed. Maybe more than $100aus for both of them combined, but probably nowhere near $200aus.

[Guelphite]

WE HAVE A WINNER!!!

This indeed seems like too much of a coincidence. I smells a lot like GURPS 4e.

Okay, in all fairness, I can understand to some extent a release of a HERO System 6th Edition.

1. From a financial stand point, it makes perfect sense. A new edition creates a potential for increased revenue.
2. It also gives a chance to clear some issues from a "game mechanics" point of view as well. Some of the issues of "over-complication" (like the whole "Regeneration issue") in the mechanics can be finally dealt with, and cleaned up.
3. It gives a chance to "streamline" the book formatting, making it more "user-friendly".

From a consumer standpoint, it raises some issues and questions.

1. Should I continue to buy new books for HERO System 5th Edition, Revised, knowing that in about one year... they will become "obsolete" and "outdated"? Shouldn't I wait, stop spending my $$$ for the materials related to HERO System 5th Edition, Revised, and wait until HERO System 6th Edition is released?
2. Is it worthwhile for me to buy the most current version of Hero Designer? This would mean that I would be buying a "two year" support agreement, and I may not be able to use it with the new HERO 6th Edition?

For a consumer, like myself, I have to choose very carefully where I spend my $$$. I don't have the free money that I once had. These are decisions that I have to personally make, considering my financial standing. Although this is my issue, I know that I am probably not alone.

Personally, I am torn about the decision to release a HERO System 6th Edition.

So, for now... I'm just going to wait to see how this develops.

I'm in the same boat. Great, clean it up and simplify.
The last guy who criticized me felt that I also have a lot of time converting up to the new system.
I must admit that a lot of this came from when I bought the 5th 2002 then the revised edition (one or two years ago for me).
I will probably wait until 6 comes out but will wait for the new supplements hit the used section or buy damaged items.
I wished that I had the luxery of living at home and not paying rent. Hi Mom and Dad!

[James Gillen]

I have no problem with two books and here is why. Due to a couple of medical reasons I no longer the strength I had in my hands. One book would be just too hard for me to hold up for a long period of time. I believe that I am not alone in this situation.

As some of us get older we no longer have the strength to keep it upright, especially only with one hand.

JG

[Steve Long]

OK, it looks to me like to the extent there was ever any conversation here that was relevant to this forum, we've drifted away from it. Let's go back to talking about rules issues in this forum.