Why We're Creating The 6th Edition -- Please Read Before Posting

[CourtFool]

Yeah...just like that Tolkien guy. Why did he have to go and ruin the Hobbit by coming out with stupid Lord of the Rings stuff. We had hobbits, dwarves and wizards...we didn't need rangers.

[Spudboy]

My thoughts exactly. I'll be done with Hero if this is the case....

Well, the main problem I have is that I'll be waiting another 5 years to get books I don't already own. A big part of why I loved GURPS 3rd (and HERO 5th) is that they had an incredibly diverse array of books on the market.

With the GURPS relaunch, what have they released? Gee, Rules, Martial Arts, Powers, Bio-Tech, High-Tech, Space, Fantasy... blah blah blah. ALL the same stuff already done for 3rd, just facelifted. I want something NEW.

Same thing will happen with HERO - heck, it's even on the 2009 schedule. What books does HERO get after 6th launches? Martial Arts, Sidekick, Champions, and Champions Universe. I suppose Space, Fantasy, and Dark Champions will follow, along with UNTIL and VIPER sourcebooks, Pulp, villain books...

Anybody else see what I'm getting at here? It's like the 'new book' days are over. Time to go back and redo all the stuff we've all got. That's why I bailed on GURPS, and why I'm tentative about HERO.

[ghost-angel]

The Door.... That Way ------->

[memorax300]

Actually I will be very unhappy if they keep everything as is. There are many aspects of the Hero Games rules that can be improved on. Some of the rules in some cases are unessarily complex. Some have duplicate effects. There is no reason for that. Please spare me the "if it's not complicated it's not the Hero System" line of thinking because that is a major copout.

Hero Games needs new fans. Most imo want a simpler system. You can bet that seeing the size of the core book and the sheer amount of rules is not going to get them in for the most part. THe younger crowd unlike the older gamers like myself want to start using a system as soon as the buy it. They also don't want it to be a chore. For many the rules as they are feels like a chore. Which is why they choose other easier systems.

With a new edition they could also improve the quality of the layout and art. Espcially the art which has been lacking as of late imo. I would not mind the boks being in color either.

There comes a time when every game designer for good or bad has to do hs own thing and not be held hostage by the fans. For Steve Long this his time. I understand that some fans will be angry an unhappy about the new edition. Yet also remember that the company needs to make money. Usually the fastest but not not necessarily the smartest is to make a new edition.

As for people not buying 6ED no one can say for sure. That is what 3ED fans said about 3.5. Yet a lage chunck still bought 3.5. It also comes down to the willingness of wanting to convert the 5ED stuff into 6ED stuff. Myself I'm in no mood to do it and will probably get 6ED as I have more important things to do with my time.

[TygerLily]

Steve, is the 3rd reason coming soon? Because post #1 said 3 reasons and I only see 2.

[McCoy]

2. To take advantage of the opportunities presented by the release of the CHAMPIONS ONLINE MMORPG.

As many of you have read by now in our new CHAMPIONS ONLINE MMORPG forum, Cryptic Studios has bought the Champions intellectual property and will release a massive multiplayer online roleplaying game based on it in 2009. That gives us access to a whole new customer base that’s never been exposed to our products before, and we want to publish books (primarily Champions books) that will appeal to them. That means reworking the books to attract their interest, such as by using art from the MMO and organizing the material to suit someone whose background is in MMOs rather than true RPGs (but without, I hasten to add, making the books less useful and appealing to our traditional RPG playing fans and customers). As long as we’re going to have to make changes along those lines, it’s the perfect opportunity to also make changes to the rules engine. (Though again, to make things perfectly clear, I am not changing the HERO System to work like an MMO, Cryptic Studios does not own the HERO System rules, and the CHAMPIONS ONLINE MMORPG does not use the HERO System rules for character creation, task or combat resolution, or anything else.) To put it another way, as long as we’ve got the hood open to change the oil we might as well replace the spark plugs if it looks like they need it.

Sign me up for the beta testing.

I bought the First edition, second, 3 and 3.5, the Big Blue Book, the late and entirely unlamented Fuzion, FRED and 5ER. I've owned the HeroMaker, Hero Creator, and Hero Designer software. I'll try the MMORPG, and 6th, but --

== please don't make this another Fuzion fiasco.

[memorax300]

== please don't make this another Fuzion fiasco.

Seconded. And make sure that the next edition come out in 2019. 10 years from 6ED. Otherwise too many editions too often can get the fanbase angry.

[Akiva]

To all of you who are making these knee-jerk threats about quitting HERO if 6E is published, what are you expecting? Are you really expecting Steve to see these threats and say, 'Oh my golly gosh! I certainly didn't mean to offend your delicate sensibilities! Tell you what, let's pretend that none of this silly talk about 6E ever happened. Would you like some milk and cookies now?'

It always tickles me to no end when people think that their personal opinions carry such a great weight with anyone other than themselves especially when they think this kind of negative talk will somehow influence anything or anyone. It's like people who get bad service at Applebee's running around shouting about how they're starting a one-person boycott and never eating there again. Last I checked, Applebee's is doing just fine.

I don't mean to be harsh here but, seriously, if that's your attitude, see ya. I absolutely cannot stand this pervasive sense of self-entitlement that so many people seem to have.

If Steve just gets rid of hexes and inches for meters, that's enough for me to buy 6E. If he gets rid of Superheroes, I'll buy two.

[Akiva]

Yeah, okay, that last post is definitely more harsh and aggressive than I intended it to be. I'm not going to change it because I do believe in what I wrote but I want to addend this response to note that I recognize the poor quality of its attitude.

I have already administered the appropriate number of beatings to myself. Also, to increase my punishment, I'm not allowing myself to read any HERO stuff tonight.

Ouch.

[memorax300]

To all of you who are making these knee-jerk threats about quitting HERO if 6E is published, what are you expecting? Are you really expecting Steve to see these threats and say, 'Oh my golly gosh! I certainly didn't mean to offend your delicate sensibilities! Tell you what, let's pretend that none of this silly talk about 6E ever happened. Would you like some milk and cookies now?'

It always tickles me to no end when people think that their personal opinions carry such a great weight with anyone other than themselves especially when they think this kind of negative talk will somehow influence anything or anyone. It's like people who get bad service at Applebee's running around shouting about how they're starting a one-person boycott and never eating there again. Last I checked, Applebee's is doing just fine.

I don't mean to be harsh here but, seriously, if that's your attitude, see ya. I absolutely cannot stand this pervasive sense of self-entitlement that so many people seem to have.

If Steve just gets rid of hexes and inches for meters, that's enough for me to buy 6E. If he gets rid of Superheroes, I'll buy two.

Pretty much agree and seconded on all points.

[caris]

If he gets rid of Superheroes, I'll buy two.

Than I hope that Steve does get rid of Superheroes, because if the rules changes are so minor that I can still use my 5th Ed book, I have to question the need for a new edition and I won't be buying a copy of the new edition. If he changes the rules so much that I can't use my 5th Ed book, I won't be buying any 6th Ed product. So the extra sale of 6th Ed to you can make up for the non-sale to me.

[Kirby]

To all of you who are making these knee-jerk threats about quitting HERO if 6E is published, what are you expecting?

Obviously something different from what you're thinking. Some people have seen Champions go from good to Fuzion. Some people have seen 2E D&D go to 3E, 3.5 and 4E. Some have seen d10 L5R go to d20 or d6 Star Wars go to d20. Most people who have seen this have seen good gaming systems go to worse gaming systems and they don't want the same to happen to d6 HERO.

Still, others don't have a large amount of flexible income. HERO books are not cheap. Not all of us can afford to purchase 6th Ed, which its starting line-up will involve purchasing book titles we already have.

The threat to the game system lies in Steve's line of "Everything is up for consideration" emphasized with "there are no sacred cows." Star Wars Galaxies had millions of subscribers when it was new. Then someone decided for a radical change and now Star Wars Galaxies has maybe one to two hundred thousand subscribers. (Around the world.)

While I'm waiting to see what the end result is, I won't be purchasing any 6th Ed books in which I already have 5th Ed if they're compatible; I don't have that kind of expendable income any more. If it's a completely different monster with the same name (like the "Godzilla" movie Matthew Broderick was in), then this will be a good time for me to exit the RPG world.

[nexus]

To all of you who are making these knee-jerk threats about quitting HERO if 6E is published, what are you expecting? Are you really expecting Steve to see these threats and say, 'Oh my golly gosh! I certainly didn't mean to offend your delicate sensibilities! Tell you what, let's pretend that none of this silly talk about 6E ever happened. Would you like some milk and cookies now?'

It always tickles me to no end when people think that their personal opinions carry such a great weight with anyone other than themselves especially when they think this kind of negative talk will somehow influence anything or anyone. It's like people who get bad service at Applebee's running around shouting about how they're starting a one-person boycott and never eating there again. Last I checked, Applebee's is doing just fine.

I don't mean to be harsh here but, seriously, if that's your attitude, see ya. I absolutely cannot stand this pervasive sense of self-entitlement that so many people seem to have.

If Steve just gets rid of hexes and inches for meters, that's enough for me to buy 6E. If he gets rid of Superheroes, I'll buy two.

So anyone with a negative opinion should just STFU? So I guess you'll stop griping about the presence of superheroes in the Champions, oh excuse me, Hero rules?

I seriously doubt anyone that says they don't like changes and they're employed they'll quit expect Steve Long to keel over and beg them to come back. If enough people say it could, ya know, be an indicator you're moving in the wrong direction when people that have supported your game line for approaching 30 years are thinking of packing it in. No one has to like everything because it's printed in the books. Saying your thinking of packing it in IS an indication of how strongly you feel about the issue not saying your personal opinion is going to sway Steve Long way or the other.

The purpose of the board was to ask for opinions. He's getting them. Yeah, if some of these changes are employed its simply not worth my money to reinvest in all these books over again. I'll stick with what I have or move onto another system, perhaps GURPS. The superior and condescending attitude some members are giving off in this discussion is really starting to get under my skin. I'll see what comes to pass but frankly, I'm not happy with majority of whats been proposed. It's not an expectation of "entitlement" its expectation of useful enjoyable product for the cash I lay down. Hero Games doesn't give the books for free and I don't enjoy them they're not going to get my money. Simple as that. I don't expect the lose of me as a customer to collapse Hero games.

[Enforcer84]

To all of you who are making these knee-jerk threats about quitting HERO if 6E is published, what are you expecting? Are you really expecting Steve to see these threats and say, 'Oh my golly gosh! I certainly didn't mean to offend your delicate sensibilities! Tell you what, let's pretend that none of this silly talk about 6E ever happened. Would you like some milk and cookies now?'

It always tickles me to no end when people think that their personal opinions carry such a great weight with anyone other than themselves especially when they think this kind of negative talk will somehow influence anything or anyone. It's like people who get bad service at Applebee's running around shouting about how they're starting a one-person boycott and never eating there again. Last I checked, Applebee's is doing just fine.

I don't mean to be harsh here but, seriously, if that's your attitude, see ya. I absolutely cannot stand this pervasive sense of self-entitlement that so many people seem to have.

If Steve just gets rid of hexes and inches for meters, that's enough for me to buy 6E. If he gets rid of Superheroes, I'll buy two.

What a funny sheep. You and the Llama should travel the world solving crimes or something.


We built this game on Superheroes and we'll still be here when you pansies are all gone

[Pattern Ghost]

2. To take advantage of the opportunities presented by the release of the CHAMPIONS ONLINE MMORPG.

As many of you have read by now in our new CHAMPIONS ONLINE MMORPG forum . . .

I can't find the new Champions Online MMORPG forum. Am I just blind? If it's up, can someone provide linkage please?

Oh, and the potential effect this will have on the artwork in the book is nice, IMO.