So how much to gamble?

[caris]

It certainly added and changed enough to qualify as a new edition. Mostly added, but still, it was a new ed. Even Rivised aparently had some serious stuff in it, judging by how I've been boggled by some of the conversations on here...

You see, I disagree. If it hadn't been for the whole Fuzion debacle, I would have been scratching my head and wondering why the were bothering to call it a new edition. I would need something far more fundamental in the way of changes to really consider something that merits calling it a different edition.

[McCoy]

Irrelevant, because Fuzion wasn't a new edition of the HERO System. Fuzion was a deliberate attempt to "simplify" the system and merge it with Interlock. 6E is not attempting to "simplify" the system (at least, not as a general goal), and it isn't being merged with or morphed into some other game. It's apples and oranges.

I hope you are right.

[nexus]

This is going to sound weird - and its just a wild postulate - but:

DoJ has said they know Champions is Hero's bread and butter, but between giving up control over the Champions name (or at least sharing it), and Steve's list of changes looking like a step towards the heroic genre, I wonder if what we're going to see is a game more slanted to cinematic and heroic action that can, with some options, do superheroes. I could be totally off base - the champions end will be even more high-profile if the onlin end works, but just to have a tinfoil hat moment: have you looked at the front-page? We've got Hero on the left side, and Champion's on the right side... are things being parsed out so the heroic and superheroic paradigms are more distinct (but theoretically using one engine)? Inquiring minds want to know...

Qeue the Twilight Zone theme....

Now that you mentioned I'm not sure your on to something but maybe...

[caris]

Now that you mentioned I'm not sure your on to something but maybe...

Honestly, I think it was less that they wanted to let go of Champions (particularly hard to believe that Steve wanted to give up Dark Champions), than this is the best compromise to get the influx of resources to keep things going in the direction that they want to go.

[nexus]

Honestly, I think it was less that they wanted to let go of Champions (particularly hard to believe that Steve wanted to give up Dark Champions), than this is the best compromise to get the influx of resources to keep things going in the direction that they want to go.

What exactly is encompassed under the label "Dark Champions" anyway? I've been somewhat confused about that since the 5th edition book was released.

[caris]

What exactly is encompassed under the label "Dark Champions" anyway? I've been somewhat confused about that since the 5th edition book was released.

Well, this covers which books are included in it. Presumably, those books would have been covered in the sale with Harbinger of Justice specifically exempted.

I was never interested in the original Dark Champions stuff, so I haven't delved into the current stuff. Even so it is my understanding that current Dark Champions was expanded to include most variation of modern American action/adventure. Campaigns based off of Die Hard, possibly Knight Rider, etc.

[James Gillen]

Plus, Steve has explicitly stated that 6E will not be dumbed down, or made "simpler" purely for the sake of making it simpler. He said it directly at DunDraCon, with me sitting mere meters away. So if he's not simplifying it for the sake of simplifying it, then I have to assume that when he talks about "continu(ing) to make the HERO System easier to learn and use," he's talking mostly about how it's written and presented... not how it works.

That's all I could want.

JG

[James Gillen]

Most of the fan base never stopped playing Hero, they just stopped buying Hero books. And it's really hard to say, Hero was in dire straights and couldn't publish much, either - hadn't published much on paper leading up the Fuzion, for that matter. Then DoJ came in and white-knighted the whole thing, and Fuzion quietly became history. Can't remember the exact years.

As you say, there weren't any Hero books to buy, so the point was moot. When the product was ready, the customers appeared.

JG

[jtelson]

I'm comfortable that 6th will be playable, enjoyable, and recognizable as the Hero System. While I often dissagree with Steve's interpretation of his own rules (man, that sounds odd), I'm still going to pick up a copy and haven't seen anything seriously discussed that I would consider a dealbreaker (I'm not sure what I would consider a dealbreaker, come to think of it). So, I would think that the larger gamble here is the short term one. What will to happen to 5th Edition product sales now that 6th edition has been announced? Although I assume that the Champions Online deal will help mitigate any reduction and that the timing of the two announcements is not coincidental.

[Opal]

I would need something far more fundamental in the way of changes to really consider something that merits calling it a different edition.

It settled the Great Linked Debate.

[Toadmaster]

While I often dissagree with Steve's interpretation of his own rules (man, that sounds odd),

Actually that is not odd, he owns the rights to the system, but technically they are not "his" rules, he did not create them. It has been a group effort from several authors / editors and Steve is just the latest. So what you are saying about interpretation is exactly right and it makes a lot of sense that you would have developed your own interpretations of the rules and even the "official" interpretations have changed over the years depending on who was at the Helm of HERO.

Before anyone jumps on me this is not an attack on the character of Steve Long, DOJ or HEROdom at large, simply saying HERO has been around quite some time and it has not been static, interpretations have changed over the years and all of us prefer one or another interpretation.

[caris]

It settled the Great Linked Debate.

It did, what debate was that?

Oh, the whole can you actually use two attacks at the same time, or is Link giving you an advantage thing?

What does it tell you that I don't particularly use MPAs, but do allow Link as a Disadvantage?

[Steve Long]

I appreciate the good wishes, everyone, but this is not an appropriate topic for this forum. Please stick to rules issues only.