Incomplete Characters 6th Edition (Consolidated Character Creation)

[Beast]

lets look at what shrinking does for a character
1 it cuts the height in 1/2 and mass to 1/8 original
so we get a + 2 DCV vs range(2 levels vs all combat only for DCV 16 active 11pts real)
-2 vs being percieved(change envirement 1 hex -2 to a characteristic or skill roll 8pts
+ 3" to knockback(just going to use KB resistance in reverse so there is 6 pts less that the character does not take extra damage which I'll call a -1 limitation so 3 pts
so lesta add it up

bonuses active cost real cost
+2 DCV 16 11
-2 to Per 8 8
+ 3" KB -6 -3

Total 21pts 16pts

you could also add for a 1 time only modifier -1" stretching -5pts to the first level
after the 5th level you start to get desolid through nomal portals(40 pts less -1 so 20pts)
after about 8 levels of shrinking you get desolid not through solid objects(40 pts less -1/2 so 32 pts
note that you would only get 1 of the 2 versions depending on how much shrinking you have

so here is a table showing the relative cost of shrinking depending on level
level of shrinking cost notes
1 11pts to attack HtH character must be in target's hex
2 27pts
3 43pts
4 59pts
5 95pts may now pass through normal portals
6 111pts
7 126pts
8 154pts treat as desolid not through solid objects

in my eyes this is how shrinking should cost out
yes I know it is not pretty or has nice round numbers

there is your better idea

[GamePhil]

Introduction
Spirits are, in fact, the original motivation for the Incomplete Character rules. 4th Edition's Horrror Hero had added a new character type to the game, the Spirit, and modified several Powers and rules specifically for it. I had thought at the time that this seemed an unnecessary deviation from the rules, but then began to think that, if it was, what about things like Computers and Automata? And thus, all of this began.

Building the Spirit
Using the Characteristic list and other assumptions I've been using for the thread, you'd sell back STR, CON, BODY, SIZ, PD, ED, REC, and END. That provides 92 points.

Spirits would take a Class of Body of Spirit, which means they are not affected by Body damage normally, but as a general rule should also not be able to inflict it. However, a Spirit uses its EGO as BODY, and can not only be Drained or otherwise have it reduced to negative numbers, but "dies" if its EGO is reduced to the negative of its original score.

Spirits exist on a separate Spirit Plane, and thus can pass through walls and are effectively invisible. At the GM's option, they may have to purchase Powers to sense the physical world, or being able to do so may be a function of the Spirit World. Being able to affect the physical world should generally require the purchase of Transdimensional or even Affects Physical World, though GM's can make exceptions.

Spirits do not take Stun, so must take the Automaton Power Takes No Stun at the 60 point level.

Spirits often fight by doing damage to one another's Ego scores. Drains and Transfers can be purchased with the Advantage that they are lost until healed normally. Transfers have to have their maxima bought up normally, of course.

A Transform can be bought to influence Spirits, functioning against EGO rather than BODY and usually bought BOECV. It can only affect a creature in the Spirit Realm if purchased Transdimensional, otherwise it can only affect Spirits with a physical form (people and possessed objects/creatures). One common such Power is Transfer Spirit, which moves a Spirit either from a physical form into the Spirit Plane, or vice versa. A Character affected by this will have a physical body lacking the Characteristics a Spirit has, and a Spirit with the appropriate Characteristics from its "whole" self. Such a displaced spirit can re-unite with its body easily enough, simply by stepping into it, but is generally disoriented and may not have the senses necessary to do so.

Other rules governing Spirits depend on the definition of the Spirit World being used.

[Talon]

I really, really like these rules and think they should be in 6th Edition in some form.

I think that buying the stat to 0 is the wrong way to go. There is a difference between a stat of 0 and not having the stat (a 0 stat can be Aided; Draining to 0 should not remove the stat; etc.).

Also, the "characteristics framework approach seems a bit too complex; "remove the stats you don't want" seems more elegant.

Rigid Defense: There need to be a wide variety of options for firing from within rigid defenses (wide open windows, gun ports, more advanced stuff).

Spaces power: This is another excellent idea that should be in the system whether or not the incomplete concept makes it in.

[Xotl]

I really, really like these rules and think they should be in 6th Edition in some form.

I think that buying the stat to 0 is the wrong way to go. There is a difference between a stat of 0 and not having the stat (a 0 stat can be Aided; Draining to 0 should not remove the stat; etc.).

Spaces power: This is another excellent idea that should be in the system whether or not the incomplete concept makes it in.

I agree with all the above. In particular, I wanted to suggest a NULL value for a stat (or NON, or NA, etc), which flags it as utterly nonexistant. This is simple and distinct from 0, and would mean that the stat cannot be aided, transferred, drained, or anything else. "0" can then work as you'd expect it elsewhere in the rules, without worries concerning what 0 Body or Stun means, etc.

I also don't think anything should ever have NULL Body, as no matter what sort of thing it is, there must be some sort of way to represent its destruction (e.g. whatever magic item that can harm spirits should do its damage to the spirit's Body). Maintaining a Body score for all things also means that Transform will always work, as I think it should, as whatever the form evisioned, we are talking about something that exists, and can thus be altered. To me, NULL body only applies to something like the void of space.

Apologies if I've missed something.

[GamePhil]

I think that buying the stat to 0 is the wrong way to go. There is a difference between a stat of 0 and not having the stat (a 0 stat can be Aided; Draining to 0 should not remove the stat; etc.).

I actually tend to agree, but the thread was devoted to making the concept work using a number of the possibilities Steve suggested might go in to 6th, and that was one of them. I've tried hard to come up with a way of doing 0== not having the stat and I haven't seen an acceptable way (someone may have done so on a thread, but I've been out of touch for a bit). Still, I'm not a professional game writer, so it may very well work out, or if not get dropped.

Nevertheless, thank you for your support!

[GamePhil]

I slod don't think any thing should ever have NULL Body, as no matter what sort of thing it is, there must be some sort of way to represent its destruction (e.g. whatever magic item that can harm spirits should do its damage to the spirit's Body). Maintaining a Body score for all things also means that Transform will always work, as I think it should, as whatever the form evisioned, we are talking about something that exists, and can thus be altered. To me, NULL body only applies to something like the void of space.

I could go with that: Body could indicate "existence" rather than physical form, with something else indicating that it is not harmable by physical attacks (probably Desolidification, but possibly one of the other wild-eyes concepts that have been proposed lately). Makes it a little hard for things like toons (as presented in Roger Rabbit) and indestructable items, both of which are only destroyed by rare things, but not impossible.

Still, I've recently become somewhat uncomfortable with the Characteristics whose only purpose is accountancy. I could do with elimination or modification of those, but that's pretty unlikely to happen, so I'm not going to worry about it.

Apologies if I've missed something.

No need, it's a pretty long thread now even if it doesn't compare to Characteristics Issues