Loved at home hated by the world.

[GloryFox]

You were a super HERO once, you battled foes far and wide. You defeated the terrible Dr. Insertnamehere, and the Abomination from beyond. People loved you in your homeland but not in the land you just had that unfortunate event in.

The terrible day happened when a group of innocent bystanders get in the way and you had to do the unthinkable to save more lives. You could not control it since that group of normals just jumped in front of your bullet, punch, kick, ball of unyielding energy, or that small 4-wheeled vehicle that you just threw at the evil villain and the mind controlled (thats what you assumed) bystanders just stood there and died.

You know it was an accident but no one in the country you made the mistake in believes you and the people you were protecting don’t care. You get a subpoena to appear before a court tribunal with no jury in that foreign country you had just saved and the country in question is hostile to supers and those that are different. The government of that country is seeking the death penalty for your actions. International law says you must appear in their court and face whatever consequences might be in store for you. Furthermore the U.N. files a resolution condemning your country of origin for not turning you over for trial. You feel as if there is no way of publicly avoiding this and you even get sympathy from your chief rival a position offered to you by your most hated foes to take the spot of the villain you just defeated.

WWYCD?

[Clonus]

International law says no such thing, not in our world or in a comic book world like that of Marvel and DC where supervillains routinely get immunity by virtue of ruling an acknowledged nation. If your two countries have an extradition treaty then the victimised country files an extradition request and the country of refuge then rules over whether it has just cause. for the request. Failing that there is no obligation under international law that you return to the country accusing you. If either country is a member of the International Criminal Court, then it is possible that they'll define your actions as a war crime and file charges against you, but then you'd appear before the ICC, not the offended nation's jurisprudence.

And of course it doesn't matter. You made the choice when you decided to flee the jurisdiction where you commited the actions in question rather than staying to face the music.

[assault]

Most of my current characters are very Four Colour, and would therefore face the music.

Meanwhile, their allies would be working on proving their innocence...

And they would be innocent. The whole thing would prove to be a frame up.

[Doomed Prophet]

For most of my characters it would be a frame job... Usually my characters, and players in my campaigns, are on US super teams so there would be almost no chance of them being in another country... If they were in another country it would probably be during a time of extreme crisis where the other nation asked for US support, in which case they would be causing alot of "flak" for themselves by suddenly saying "<insert name> killed <insert number> of civilians! We want to bring him up on charges!"
They would probably cause themselves more grief than they caused the character...

[Comic]

If it's good enough for Green Lantern Alan Stewart, for Superman, for the entire Justice League except Batman, then if I were a DC, I'd be there.

OTOH, wasn't that sort of how Civil War started in Marvel?

[Kirby]

Nuke them. Then spread salt throughout their lands.

[assault]

If it's good enough for Green Lantern Alan Stewart, for Superman, for the entire Justice League except Batman, then if I were a DC, I'd be there.

John Stewart. Alan Scott.

Batman has been in situations like this before. I think Robin broke him out, after he realised he couldn't solve the case by himself.

OTOH, wasn't that sort of how Civil War started in Marvel?

This is the other side of the question. Is the GM being a jerk or not? My initial impulse would be to assume he wasn't, and get offended if it turns out he was. In this situation "how Civil War started" is a case of "he was".

So it's not the case that a bunch of mind-controlled dupes died. That's what might have appeared to happen, but it's not what really happened.

Unless the GM is a jerk.

In the latter case, the game is probably doomed. If for some reason I wanted to stick around, I'd probably just pretend the whole thing never happened. Maybe I'd fake my characters death, and take up a new identity or something. In character or not, I doubt my character would beat himself up about it. Basically, this situation appears sufficiently hamfisted that a roleplaying response to it is inappropriate. It's not a tragedy - it's a travesty.

[lemming]

And then there are the countries that wouldn't extradite you because you'd be facing the death penalty.

[assault]

In the case of my Silver Age/Four Colour characters, extradition wouldn't be an issue. If there was serious evidence, they'd face the court voluntarily.

[Vondy]

There is no such premise under international law which is an opt-in treaty system and not a mandatory code of law. They are welcome, of course, to attempt to extradite me under any extant treaties between their country and mine, but since my country 1) considers a jury before ones peers to be a basic right, 2) does not apply the death penalty to accidental death, and 3) considers me a hero it will be a cold day in hell when that happens. What's more, since the matter as described would not merit the involvement of the security council, the united nations can take their resolutions and wipe with them. They are not binding, and therefore meaningless saber-rattling. What is more, they don't even require a simple majority and are, by definition, anti-democratic. And, lets just say for sake of an argument, that the security council did get involved - all my heros are American citizens. Can you say defacto veto? Mistakes happen. I can feel bad about it and atone for it without bowing my head to a regime which, as described, is pretty damned unenlightened.

[Badger]

Badger-So you are trying to turn Badger back into a villain, ehh? Well, let's see probably wouldnt be as broken up about it as you typical hero. Unless kids were involved and that would probably make it worse than your average hero. Anyhow, he wouldnt turn himself in. I dont see him turning to out and out evil again (immediately anyway). But, he will have to be tracked down. And like a wounded stray he will lash out at anyone who comes to bring him in (even close allies). He wouldnt be afraid of a death penalty (sometimes he would welcome death). But, he will choose how he goes out. ANd standing trial and execution isnt his idea of "honorable". Dying in battle is how he wants to go out.

Frosty Bob- Honestly. Takes the villain job. Being a villain would be less of a hindrance on his style, anyway. Though as far as the one giving him the job, it would be strained relationship. Bob isnt good at taking orders longterm. If he is continously given his fill of alcohol, fast women, and fights he be kept in line. But, anything like one of those devious underhanded plans like your typical mad genius likes, and well. Bob would be more interested in continuing the battle than a strategic retreat. Though, he may just be joining for the kicks of bringing the villain down from the inside, anyway.

[Vondy]

And then there are the countries that wouldn't extradite you because you'd be facing the death penalty.

Including the US, incidentally. If the crime isn't a death penalty crime in the US extradition generally becomes predicated on no death penalty attaching to the crime. This happens with EU countries when extradition cases from the US that might incude [ any ] capital punishment comes up, as well. What's more, the absence of a jury trial makes the notion of extradition from the US a non-starter, unless they waive that right, which would be a stupid thing to do. Unless you were a non-citizen from this weird despotic country in the first place and the government wanted you out for other reasons and revoked your visa, the entire scenario is a non-starter if you are in the US (or a vast number of other countries, for that matter).

[bubba smith]

my hero might consider retirement

[wylodmayer]

So, I take it that you're stipulating that international law works as you say it does, at least in the campaign world where this is taking place, rather than asserting a descriptive statement about how international works in the real world. If that's so, then objections that international law doesn't "really" work that way are missing the point rather broadly... I mean, physics doesn't work in such a way as to explain the powers of any of the characters we're talking about here, either, so we can assume he didn't the thread initiator wasn't talking about the real world.

Anyway, I notice there's a crucial piece of information missing - is the hero guilty? I mean, the scenario stipulates that the hero actually did kill innocents while attempting to stop a villain. However, it's still quite possible that the hero was reckless and negligent.

The threshold for what constitutes negligent behavior will probably move with the level of threat that the villain posed. If we're talking a super-armored madman who's going to destroy the world, and has already caused massive collateral damage, then a hero, especially if he's outgunned himself, will have a much lower burden for avoiding incidental damage to civilians - which is not to say he has no burden in this regard.

If the law in this scenario world (and country) has a structure which parallels real law, then the courts will be sensitive to the fact that there are cases where caution kind of gets thrown to the winds to save thousands, possibly millions, of lives. A hero who is on the ropes and trying to prevent the extermination of mankind won't be held rigidly responsible for an action that might be considered unforgivably reckless under less high-stakes circumstances.

If the villain is just a bank robber, for instance, who's trying to escape, rather than harm anyone, then the hero is almost certainly guilty of some sort of serious crime for killing the innocent bystanders. Basically, the law would take the view that the hero had no excuse for taking any action which could reasonably cause the deaths of innocents in order to apprehend someone who had committed a property crime and wasn't an immediate threat to anyone.

And of course there are shades of grey. Ace, for instance, is liscenced to carry a firearm and has a bounty hunter's license as well. He discharges his sidearm sometimes in fighting villains, but certainly not near crowds, unless there's imminent and serious danger to someone's life. If he was shooting at a bad guy and hit a civilian, it was either (a) because he had no idea the civilian - or any civilian - was anywhere nearby, or (b) because the bad guy was about to kill someone. Either way, it's probably something like reckless homicide at worst. If the bad guy was a bank robber, they'd probably rake him over the coals, and he could get ten years or so. But if he was shooting at a murderer and had reason to believe either that there were no civilians in the line of fire and/or that the guy was an imminent danger, he might get off with two years suspended. Ace would probably stand trial - after all, he did kill someone. Unless he wants to become like the criminals he hunts, he has to subject himself to the judgment of society - if THEY think he was being irresponsible, then he wouldn't be so arrogant as to tell them to get bent and flee justice. Talk about becoming that which you hate...

Cat, on the other hands, has no faith whatsoever in the criminal justice system, and she doesn't enforce the law, she is fighting for what she thinks of as right. She'd torture herself endlessly about having killed someone, but she'd never, ever let herself get taken in, even if it meant changing identities.

Ingrid does not use deadly force unless authorized by the proper agencies, in which case she has a "good faith" defense.

[Kirby]

Did you even read the second paragraph? It states that this was an obvious accident.

As for "International Law," if these are our characters, then they are in our campaign and thus "International Law," would be as it is. This "WWYCD" thread isn't about "Why has 'International Law' changed, but "there was an accident and now you're sentenced to death before your trial begins," also known as GM railroading and screwing you over.