How about Character Level Advancement?

[Lord Fyre]

I am serious.

If the Hero system could be done as some kind of hybrid of character level advancement and point building, I believe that this would open up some interresting benefits.

• It would improve convertability with the MMO, which Cryptic has clearly stated that will be a level based system.
• It would give more a sense of character advancement, which is somewhat limited now, as the typical adventure only yields 3-5 experience points. (This is expecially true for players coming from other game systems.)
• Finally, it would add some structure to encounter balancing, which would make senarios easier to make.

I do understand how radical this idea is, but before rejecting it out of hand, think about it for a coupld of minutes.

[Klaus Mogensen]

If the Hero system could be done as some kind of hybrid of character level advancement and point building

I think that one of the major things that seperate Hero from D&D and similar systems is the great freedom of character creation and advancement. I don't want to see that changed.

However, it is very possible to make a level-like construct within Hero (it is, after all, a toolkit). It could go something like this:

Character Levels in Hero System (sidebar option)
If you want something like character levels in Hero System, you can use the following guidelines:

• Level one: 30 character points, active points limit 20, DC limit 4
• Each +1 level: +30 character points, active points limit +5, DC limit +1

So at level 5, a character would e.g. have a total of 150 character points and an active points limit of 40.

You can add a few more items such as characteristics maximae if you like, but it doesn't have to be more complex than the above.

- Klaus

[Hugh Neilson]

I don't see moving the game to be more like d20 to be advantageous. If you want to play d20, play d20. Hero is, and should remain, a separate system.

That said, I see nothing wrong with some guidance in the rules for simulating a level-based system, though I don't see it as any kind of priority. There's only so many pages available.

[Vulcan]

Yeah, the system Klaus posted should be plenty. Maybe half a page in the GM's book should be plenty.

[NestorDRod]

I thought about it.

Years ago.

That's why I don't play those games any more.

[nexus]

I am serious.

If the Hero system could be done as some kind of hybrid of character level advancement and point building, I believe that this would open up some interresting benefits.

• It would improve convertability with the MMO, which Cryptic has clearly stated that will be a level based system.
  

• I've seen what happens when a tabletop game tries emulate a MMO (D and D 4e.) Not interested.
  
  

• It would give more a sense of character advancement, which is somewhat limited now, as the typical adventure only yields 3-5 experience points. (This is expecially true for players coming from other game systems.)

[AnotherSkip]

I have enough problems with characters saving XP and not spending it to worry about such things.

One guy will get in the 10-25 range if we let him. it is a baaaaaaaad habit we are trying to break.

[Lord Fyre]

I have enough problems with characters saving XP and not spending it to worry about such things.

One guy will get in the 10-25 range if we let him. it is a baaaaaaaad habit we are trying to break.

On the contrary, if the player has a strong idea of a power he wants, I think he is doing the right thing.

[AnotherSkip]

On the contrary, if the player has a strong idea of a power he wants, I think he is doing the right thing.

I would agree IF he were going for something, He ISN'T.
He is merely saving them because it is his bad habit, from D&D that you save points then level. I would rather the character grow organically from the adventures rather than "Bing" whenever we bs at the end of four or five weeks of gaming. He then spends his points in a twiddly fashion and kinda forgets what he has been doing. Keep in mind It isn't really a complaint about him or saving points (neither of which I have a complaint about in the slightest) or spending them in a twiddly fashion (which is just fine tuning the character) but when the player himself recognises it as a bad leftover habit....

Besides level advancement is a hangover from Tactical Studies Rules Millitary background. I have yet to see a character with a good background that is "fully funded" at the get go.

[Vulcan]

If a character is 'fully funded' at the get go, well, there's really not all that much point to actually playing the character, is there?

[NestorDRod]

If a character is 'fully funded' at the get go, well, there's really not all that much point to actually playing the character, is there?

Depends on your playing style. Not everyone is a builder; some players have a story for their characters that doesn't involve them starting as newbies.

[AnotherSkip]

In a 150 point Hero campaign I had plans for about the next 300-1000 character points by the time I hit 200 cp....

I don't start as a newbie most times (the others I game with complain about "skippy manuvers" when I play new kids). However if you are "fully funded" what are you gonna do with the Xp you accumulate? nothing? takes out one of the rewards of playing the game IMNSHO.

[caris]

I am serious.

If the Hero system could be done as some kind of hybrid of character level advancement and point building, I believe that this would open up some interresting benefits.

• It would improve convertability with the MMO, which Cryptic has clearly stated that will be a level based system.
• It would give more a sense of character advancement, which is somewhat limited now, as the typical adventure only yields 3-5 experience points. (This is expecially true for players coming from other game systems.)
• Finally, it would add some structure to encounter balancing, which would make senarios easier to make.

I do understand how radical this idea is, but before rejecting it out of hand, think about it for a coupld of minutes.

I'm not rejecting it out of hand. First, I'd point out that it is not that unusual of a concept. In many ways my understanding is that DnD from 3rd on could be considered such a hybrid with just more emphais on the level than on the build. RoleMaster is certainly a hybrid of a level and a build system. Earthdawn is one as well. Unfortunately, I it most likely that any attempt to introduce levels to Hero would most likely follow the RoleMaster model, which while I liked RoleMaster well enough, I know was one of the reason that most of my friends did not like RoleMaster. They didn't like getting a rather large number of points that had to all be spent at that one point in time. Now, granted with RoleMaster it was aggravated by the way that points were spent, but that feel of having to go through what can for some people be the tedious part of character creation (yes, I know some people love doing that I'm one of them. I'll build characters just for fun in RoleMaster.), spending a lot of points all at one time, got to them.

I do like the Earthdawn approach, where you spend points on various things, once you meet certain criteria, than you can level up, which primarily consists of enabling you to spend points on new things, and getting bonus abilities for "free". A model that I think would be a bit more of a departure from the current structure than most people would desire, particularly getting "free" stuff.

[caris]

In a 150 point Hero campaign I had plans for about the next 300-1000 character points by the time I hit 200 cp....

I don't start as a newbie most times (the others I game with complain about "skippy manuvers" when I play new kids). However if you are "fully funded" what are you gonna do with the Xp you accumulate? nothing? takes out one of the rewards of playing the game IMNSHO.

Well, that is sort of what NestorDRod is getting at. XP is only one possible way of rewarding players. Now Hero is different in that almost all of the normal rewards used in RPGs: competency, power, influence, "toys," wealth, followers, etc. can be directly acquired with points. There are still rewards from the less "gamey" aspects of RPGs that can motivate people to play. At the risk of invoking too much White Wolf some peole are just interested telling an interesting story, or acting out an interesting character. I've oftened switched characters in a campaign, not because I've run out of interesting things to buy for the character with XP, but because I've run out of interesting things to have the character do.

[Kdansky]

One of the main things I dislike in DnD: Character level

Say, what level are you? What Level am I? I can tell you that I am "pretty good" at Computer Science, so I would give myself a Computer Programming Skill. But Level?

Yeah right, moving on.