Is it Flash or is it me?

[SteveZilla]

Er...yes.

I cannot see this as being valid. Heck, even normal sight and hearing can be assigned F/X other than the usual Eyeballs & Ears. If my Mentalist uses Flash + BOECV with the F/X of "I scramble the part of your brain that processes information coming from that sense", I don't think rubbing on the outside of one's eyes will affect this any more than rubbing on one's scalp will help get rid of a Mind Control.

[Sean Waters]

I cannot see this as being valid. Heck, even normal sight and hearing can be assigned F/X other than the usual Eyeballs & Ears. If my Mentalist uses Flash + BOECV with the F/X of "I scramble the part of your brain that processes information coming from that sense", I don't think rubbing on the outside of one's eyes will affect this any more than rubbing on one's scalp will help get rid of a Mind Control.

I was being facetious but there is no reason why taking a moment to collect your thoughts should not speed up recovery from a brain scramble. It is going to be rare that anyone in combat will voluntarily stop and drop to DCV 0, but it could be an option. There is precedent in using phases to take extra REC and - crucially - if such a rule existed it would probably substantially reduce the motivation for this argument.

[archermoo]

I cannot see this as being valid. Heck, even normal sight and hearing can be assigned F/X other than the usual Eyeballs & Ears. If my Mentalist uses Flash + BOECV with the F/X of "I scramble the part of your brain that processes information coming from that sense", I don't think rubbing on the outside of one's eyes will affect this any more than rubbing on one's scalp will help get rid of a Mind Control.

Well, rubbing the outside of your eyes doesn't do anything to help them recover from being dazzled either.

[archermoo]

Yeah, I hate that "Kdansky" guy too!

I do. :P

Oh, I don't. I just disagree with him.

[SteveZilla]

I was being facetious but there is no reason why taking a moment to collect your thoughts should not speed up recovery from a brain scramble. It is going to be rare that anyone in combat will voluntarily stop and drop to DCV 0, but it could be an option. There is precedent in using phases to take extra REC and - crucially - if such a rule existed it would probably substantially reduce the motivation for this argument.

Ah, humor. I need to practice recognizing it.

I dunno, if my character was Controlled to attack my teammates, I'd *more* than want to lower my DCV to 0 so that they could use an Entangle or Flash on me. Getting an extra attempt to break out (outside of the rules for breakout attempts) is icing on the cake.

Taking a Recovery Action to get one's REC in STUN and END back has it's limits -- mainly that of restoring STUN and END. Otherwise, I'd expect a SPD 12 character to heal up BODY damage at 13x the regular rate due to taking nothing but Recoveries. Yet that doesn't happen, so I think there really isn't much of a precedent.

(note: Sean, I wan't quite able to read which way you were leaning on this subject from your post, so if I misread it, just presume I was talking to the audience in general. )

[Sean Waters]

...................
(note: Sean, I wan't quite able to read which way you were leaning on this subject from your post, so if I misread it, just presume I was talking to the audience in general. )

I can be terribly obtuse sometimes. One might even begin to suspect eventually that I was doing it on purpose

[SteveZilla]

It sounds like an acute condition.

[archermoo]

I dunno, if my character was Controlled to attack my teammates, I'd *more* than want to lower my DCV to 0 so that they could use an Entangle or Flash on me. Getting an extra attempt to break out (outside of the rules for breakout attempts) is icing on the cake.

Except that of course if you have been controlled to attack your teammates, you shouldn't be sabotaging your attempt to do so. Unless the method of control is so ineffective as to reasonably allow such sabotage.

[SteveZilla]

Well, it all depends upon how the command was worded, doesn't it?

If it was just "Attack your friends/teammates!", then I could conceivably do less than a bang-up job at it -- and I could choose which friend to attack, and which attack to use as well. Though I wouldn't go so far as to say that I could attack with just 1d6 out of 12.

I don't see this as much different from the example if a normal were Commanded to "Go to the top of <name of real tall building> and jump off!" where the person chooses to use the stairs instead of the elevator, and shouts loudly for help all the way up.

[casualplayer]

Flash is one of those powers that makes Loners wish they had teammates. So use it that way. Not to pwn the entire team but to chastise the solo actor or emphasize how nice it is to have someone else with you when you are fighting.

But, then again, I feel that way about all the Powers.

[Hugh Neilson]

Flash is one of those powers that makes Loners wish they had teammates. So use it that way. Not to pwn the entire team but to chastise the solo actor or emphasize how nice it is to have someone else with you when you are fighting.

But, then again, I feel that way about all the Powers.

Even duplication?

[archermoo]

Well, it all depends upon how the command was worded, doesn't it?

If it was just "Attack your friends/teammates!", then I could conceivably do less than a bang-up job at it -- and I could choose which friend to attack, and which attack to use as well. Though I wouldn't go so far as to say that I could attack with just 1d6 out of 12.

I don't see this as much different from the example if a normal were Commanded to "Go to the top of <name of real tall building> and jump off!" where the person chooses to use the stairs instead of the elevator, and shouts loudly for help all the way up.

As I said, it depends on how you are being compelled to do it. "Attack your teammates" is, as you pointed out, a pretty poorly devised method. Off the top of my head "The people you thought were your teammates are really your most hated enemies and must be destroyed to save your true teammates" would be much better. Or even "Your teammates have betrayed you and must be destroyed for you to be able to save yourself and your loved ones".

To me, one of the signs of a good roleplayer is someone who when the situation demands it is willing and able to honestly work against their character's best interests. Someone who can be counted on when given the job of, for instance, playing a doppelganger of their own character to do so to the utmost of their abilities.

[SteveZilla]

As I said, it depends on how you are being compelled to do it. "Attack your teammates" is, as you pointed out, a pretty poorly devised method. Off the top of my head "The people you thought were your teammates are really your most hated enemies and must be destroyed to save your true teammates" would be much better. Or even "Your teammates have betrayed you and must be destroyed for you to be able to save yourself and your loved ones".

"It's easier to Mind Control someone if the orders seem reasonable, and harder if they're poorly worded." 5ER, p203. Your examples work, if they are a bit wordy. I'd just put it at "Your teammates are actually your most hated, dangerous enemies in disguise." and let the rest take care of itself.

More than likely it's going to be an EGO+30 effect level to get that, but with careful wording, it might be an EGO+20. IMO it's better to command a change in the character's views to elicit the desired result than to just command the desired result in the first place.

To me, one of the signs of a good roleplayer is someone who when the situation demands it is willing and able to honestly work against their character's best interests. Someone who can be counted on when given the job of, for instance, playing a doppelganger of their own character to do so to the utmost of their abilities.

Heh, I have actually been in that situation (but the GM clued me in before the game so I knew to play along and not let the other players know). The GM can use both well-worded and poorly-worded commands, depending upon his needs. A powerful, but totally inexperienced Mentalist might be more likely to resort to the latter, and a veteran villain could be counted on to likely plan commands ahead by doing research on his targets, and thus use the former.

Though even an experienced Mentalist, when faced with overwhelming opposition, might panic (just not at first) and try a poorly-worded command out of desperation for a delaying tactic to allow escape.

[Hugh Neilson]

"It's easier to Mind Control someone if the orders seem reasonable, and harder if they're poorly worded." 5ER, p203. Your examples work, if they are a bit wordy. I'd just put it at "Your teammates are actually your most hated, dangerous enemies in disguise." and let the rest take care of itself.

"Your teammates are under the control of an enemy mentalist, and trying to kill me. You must save me, Boy Scout Man."

Let's see...he knows mentalists exist, so it's certainly possible. And he can't let his friends murder someone while under such an influence. And his own Code vs Killing would prevent him standing by while his friends kill anyone, even if they were acting of their own volition.

I'd say the fact the commands are easier to implement is reflected in the fact that a lower required roll means a success is not only more likely, but also harder to break out from.

[prestidigitator]

Changing what the character believes rather than what (s)he does sounds more like Telepathy (or MAYBE Mental Illusions) than Mind Control to me.