Monster Island

[FenrisUlf]

What you describe is actually how the Lemurians were, before a major event in their history which is described in Hidden Lands. The circumstances on Monster Island which led to their return to that status is IMHO one of the more intriguing developments in the book.

To me there's something ominous about that development happening when the Lemurians are neighbors with the Elder Worm -- whose gods are almost certainly the same ones the Lemurians worship/fear under the name of 'the Cold Ones'.

[ghost-angel]

I think he probably meant the fact that the group described in MI are Spoiler:

show spoiler

reptile-men with shapeshifting powers

instead of being basically human-appearing, as they were described in Hidden Lands and Atlantean Age.

They were always that way. It's not a change and LL pointed out. That - actually - is an integral part of their history and culture. And a very significant part of the background for Leviathan (CU p17, 94; UNTIL p28; CUNewOfTheWorld p11; Villains,Vandals,And Vermind p90 - character sheet in VVV).

Not an insignificant villain in the CU itself.

If that's the change being referred to, someone wasn't reading Hidden Lands closely enough.

[name_tamer]

They were always that way. It's not a change and LL pointed out. That - actually - is an integral part of their history and culture. And a very significant part of the background for Leviathan (CU p17, 94; UNTIL p28; CUNewOfTheWorld p11; Villains,Vandals,And Vermind p90 - character sheet in VVV).

Not an insignificant villain in the CU itself.

If that's the change being referred to, someone wasn't reading Hidden Lands closely enough.

IMO it's pretty clear from the text of Monster Island that the Lemurians - at least the ones on Monster Island - have, indeed, changed in a very interesting way. If when you say "they were always that way" you mean that the developments that are described in Monster Island are completely consistent and "in continuity" with the Lemurians' backstory, then I agree with you 100%.

Spoiler:

show spoiler

In Hidden Lands, as you and LL point out, the Lemurians were originally a "reptilian race of shape-changers." Page 100. But (as described in Hidden Lands) most modern-day Lemurians are humanoid-appearing, having lost their ability to shapechange, and becoming locked in humanoid, not reptilian form: "And thanks to Andrith's spell, they would remain in humanoid form forever more." Page 102. (There are "reptilian throwbacks" like Leviathan, as described on page 119, but they usually can't change shape, and under Arvad's rule they are under a death sentence.) Monster Island describes how Vikorin "unravelled the effects of Andrith's spell on one of the lesser nobles serving him...." Page 120. Thus all the Lemurians presented are reptilian-appearing, and seemingly proud of it (they serve Vikorin out of "profound gratitude," page 120), and many of them have Shapechanging on their character sheets.

To me, and perhaps to lapsedgamer, this is a "new take." (YMMV, etc. ) So in case you didn't see it that way, I thought I would make a guess at what lapsedgamer was referring to (I could of course have guessed wrong about what lapsedgamer meant). IMO it is pretty obviously a change: yes, it is rooted in the Lemurians' backstory and continuity; no, it is not necessarily surprising, having been hinted at in the plot seeds in Hidden Lands, and being the kind of thing that happens in comic books; and no, it is not necessarily a change that need affect all Lemurians in the long run; but I nevertheless see it as a change. As you point out, much of Lemuria's history and culture is influenced by the fact that they were trapped in humanoid form; in Hidden Lands, Arvad has several plans to revitalize Lemurian culture, including a plan to attempt to reverse Andrith's spell, but he "hesitates to initiate these plans because of the drastic ways they might change Lemurian society." Page 124 (emphasis added). Now Vikorin has at least partly succeeded in implementing those plans, at least on Monster Island, and one might expect further changes in the Lemurians' society to ensue.

Will Vikorin find the Scroll of Andrith and perfect the process? If he does, will all Lemurians choose to be exposed to his spell? Will the drastic changes that Arvad feared come about? How will Arvad, who detests the Lemurians' reptilian appearance, react to all this (he seems to be aware of it, because Warlord Zarn, who has undergone Vikorin's ritual, is described as still being a "loyal servant of Emperor Arvad," Monster Island page 123)? I guess we can look to Cryptic for the answers to these questions -- -- or play them out ourselves.
I hope it's clear that I agree with the opinions expressed upthread that these are potentially very intriguing developments. In fact, this looks to me like a major plot thread* that has the potential to have major, permanent changes on the Lemurian society and morphology (or at least, as permanent as anything is in a superhero comic book, or comic book game ), -- which to me can fairly be described as a "new take." Again, YMMV, but it seemed pretty likely to me that this is what lapsedgamer was referring to, so I thought I'd point it out.

*My only complaint about this plot thread is that it makes what was IMO one of the most enjoyable pieces of art in Hidden Lands - the portrait of Warlord Zarn on page 141 - obsolete.

[Lord Liaden]

Just as a corollary to name_tamer's excellent summary, above, Spoiler:

show spoiler

what comic-inspired world would be complete without a malevolent race of shape-shifters?

[ghost-angel]

IMO it's pretty clear from the text of Monster Island that the Lemurians - at least the ones on Monster Island - have, indeed, changed in a very interesting way. If when you say "they were always that way" you mean that the developments that are described in Monster Island are completely consistent and "in continuity" with the Lemurians' backstory, then I agree with you 100%.

I guess I don't view Plot Advancement Consistent With Background to be a radical change. Lemuria's past has always played a major part in their current situation, they practically worship it by disavowing so strongly.

[name_tamer]

I guess I don't view Plot Advancement Consistent With Background to be a radical change.

Okay, no worries. Like I said, YMMV.

[name_tamer]

BTW G-A, thanks for all the reviews, which obviously take a lot of work. It says I need to spread some around before I give you more rep.

[ghost-angel]

You're welcome.

[lapsedgamer]

IMO it's pretty clear from the text of Monster Island that the Lemurians - at least the ones on Monster Island - have, indeed, changed in a very interesting way. If when you say "they were always that way" you mean that the developments that are described in Monster Island are completely consistent and "in continuity" with the Lemurians' backstory, then I agree with you 100%.

Spoiler:

show spoiler

In Hidden Lands, as you and LL point out, the Lemurians were originally a "reptilian race of shape-changers." Page 100. But (as described in Hidden Lands) most modern-day Lemurians are humanoid-appearing, having lost their ability to shapechange, and becoming locked in humanoid, not reptilian form: "And thanks to Andrith's spell, they would remain in humanoid form forever more." Page 102. (There are "reptilian throwbacks" like Leviathan, as described on page 119, but they usually can't change shape, and under Arvad's rule they are under a death sentence.) Monster Island describes how Vikorin "unravelled the effects of Andrith's spell on one of the lesser nobles serving him...." Page 120. Thus all the Lemurians presented are reptilian-appearing, and seemingly proud of it (they serve Vikorin out of "profound gratitude," page 120), and many of them have Shapechanging on their character sheets.

To me, and perhaps to lapsedgamer, this is a "new take." (YMMV, etc. ) So in case you didn't see it that way, I thought I would make a guess at what lapsedgamer was referring to (I could of course have guessed wrong about what lapsedgamer meant). IMO it is pretty obviously a change: yes, it is rooted in the Lemurians' backstory and continuity; no, it is not necessarily surprising, having been hinted at in the plot seeds in Hidden Lands, and being the kind of thing that happens in comic books; and no, it is not necessarily a change that need affect all Lemurians in the long run; but I nevertheless see it as a change. As you point out, much of Lemuria's history and culture is influenced by the fact that they were trapped in humanoid form; in Hidden Lands, Arvad has several plans to revitalize Lemurian culture, including a plan to attempt to reverse Andrith's spell, but he "hesitates to initiate these plans because of the drastic ways they might change Lemurian society." Page 124 (emphasis added). Now Vikorin has at least partly succeeded in implementing those plans, at least on Monster Island, and one might expect further changes in the Lemurians' society to ensue.

Will Vikorin find the Scroll of Andrith and perfect the process? If he does, will all Lemurians choose to be exposed to his spell? Will the drastic changes that Arvad feared come about? How will Arvad, who detests the Lemurians' reptilian appearance, react to all this (he seems to be aware of it, because Warlord Zarn, who has undergone Vikorin's ritual, is described as still being a "loyal servant of Emperor Arvad," Monster Island page 123)? I guess we can look to Cryptic for the answers to these questions -- -- or play them out ourselves.
I hope it's clear that I agree with the opinions expressed upthread that these are potentially very intriguing developments. In fact, this looks to me like a major plot thread* that has the potential to have major, permanent changes on the Lemurian society and morphology (or at least, as permanent as anything is in a superhero comic book, or comic book game ), -- which to me can fairly be described as a "new take." Again, YMMV, but it seemed pretty likely to me that this is what lapsedgamer was referring to, so I thought I'd point it out.

*My only complaint about this plot thread is that it makes what was IMO one of the most enjoyable pieces of art in Hidden Lands - the portrait of Warlord Zarn on page 141 - obsolete.

Under his spoiler tag are my thoughts. I cannot do a better job of summarizing them, so I place my flag on the hill next to his. I have also repped him.

Also, I didn't mean to get a big thing started. I just like the Hidden Lands Lemurians. Really.

[shinzuer]

Without being to specific what makes the 8 beast-man types different from the other types ?

[Lord Liaden]

If you mean, what distinguishes the different beast-man types from each other: First, differences in their Characteristics for animal types that are bigger and stronger, faster and more agile, etc. Second, abilities specific to a certain beast type, such as wings for bird-men, swimming for frog-men, or a dog-man's ability to track by scent. Third, the special effects of some of their Powers, e.g. a HKA defined as bite, claws, or antlers.