Weapons and armor discussion

[Toadmaster]

On the old board I started the axes vs maces thread which eventually grew to include a lot of good ideas for handling weapons. Since the old boards are not available at least for now and since Conquest and the impending arrival of FH later this year has the fantasy weapons lobe of my brain going into overtime I thought I'd try to get people to share their ideas on giving weapons and armor more personality. Anything weapons and armor is fair game, good books, TV series, movies etc, individual opinions, Use of UMA for martial maneuvers, ideas for building weapons, armor etc.

[Toadmaster]

Ok, I'll start with giving weapons some personality.

Special features of general classes of weapons

Axes, +1DC

Swords, +1 OCV

Maces / hammers, Penetrating

Picks, AP

Hooked weapons, may use grab manuever only to pull an opponent off a horse or off balance.

[GradonSilverton]

One thing that i've always done is throw most standard weapons out for my FH campaigns.....

I then create Society appropiate weapons for the cultues...

Somethings will stay.... basics like certain sword, axes, hammers, ect. But most others are repackaged with small changes to fit cultures...

Take a Quarter Staff for example....

In one culture it has evolved into a hidden weapon.

the staff is hollowed out at 2 parts to allow a sword and a spear to fit inside the staff. If necessary, the stall can be broken up into a spear (1 piece drops to the ground) or a spear and a sword (roughly the size of 2 shory swords) and used for 2 Handed Fighting. The spear end becomes a Parrying weapon (+1 DCV) while the sword the major strike weapon... when battle is over, the weapons twist (groves in the wood) back together to reform the staff....

[Old Man]

Originally posted by Toadmaster

Special features of general classes of weapons
Axes, +1DC
Swords, +1 OCV
Maces / hammers, Penetrating
Picks, AP
Hooked weapons, may use grab manuever only to pull an opponent off a horse or off balance.

We need to give maces some distinction too. I thought about giving them reduced pen, but that would make them useless. So is the +1 stun mult that usually goes to the hammers.

Maybe some kind of permanent plate armor/shield damage? That's my understanding of how they were used. Say each hit with a mace takes off X DEF from the armor, where X is equal to the amount of 'normal BODY' rolled on the dice? So if I'm swinging for 2d6K on average I'd take 2 DEF off your platemail when I hit, in addition to any damage I happen to do to you.

The biggest problem I see is that this drops sharply in effectiveness if hit locations are in use.

[CourtFool]

Yeah...rocks.

Energy Blast: 1d6 OIF -½ (Sure you can take the rock away, but they just pick up another one), Range Based On Strength -¼, Reduced Penetration -¼ (Any armor will take the sting out)
Active Cost: 5
Real Cost: 3

[BNakagawa]

spears: -1 OCV, more damage, reach

[Victor]

Well, one way to make weapons more distinctive would be to start with the armor. Define each type of armor as belonging to one (or more) of the following sets; Cloth, Leather, Mail, Wood, and Plate. Then you can give weapons properties vs. specific types of armors.

For example, Banded armor may be considered both Leather and Plate. Forest Elven (or some Oriental) armor might be Wood and Cloth.

Arrows and Spears might be AP vs. Mail, and RedPen vs. Wood.
Hammers/Maces might be Penetrating vs. Cloth/Leather/Mail, and +1 Stun vs. Plate.
Swords might be AP vs. Cloth, RedPen vs. Plate, and +1 Stun vs. Leather and Mail.

Alternatively (or additionaly), you could break weapons down into the types of damage they can do (piercing, slashing, crushing, hacking, etc.). Then you can replace the "Strike" combat maneuver with a freebie one for each type of damage, and apply the mods that way... which supports creating odd/exotic weapons better.
A Polearm might be able to pierce and slash, the Lirpa (Vulcan weapon from Star Trek TOS) could Crush and Slash, and a rapier might only be able to Pierce effectively.

[Old Man]

Originally posted by Victor

Alternatively (or additionaly), you could break weapons down into the types of damage they can do (piercing, slashing, crushing, hacking, etc.). Then you can replace the "Strike" combat maneuver with a freebie one for each type of damage, and apply the mods that way... which supports creating odd/exotic weapons better.
A Polearm might be able to pierce and slash, the Lirpa (Vulcan weapon from Star Trek TOS) could Crush and Slash, and a rapier might only be able to Pierce effectively.

Isn't that GURPS? It's a good idea, but I don't see an elegant way to retrofit that onto the existing system. HERO is just a bit more abstracted than that.

[Nevenall]

Here is the kernal of a suggestion for implimenting a Piercing, Slashing, and Crushing damage system.

I was thinking, there is already a distinction between physical and energy damage, and between normal and killing damage.
When you buy an armor power you are already ratioing the point between PD and ED, so why not add Piercing, Slashing, and Crushing Defense too.
Then when you buy armor you establish a ratio between Piercing, Slashing, Crushing, and Energy Defenses.

Doing the same thing for weapons is a little more difficult. Maybe the best would be to say that when you buy a killing attack you must define what type of damage it does. Piercing, etc... For a weapon that can do two types of damage, then you could construct a multipower for it, or you could ratio the points of you killing attack just like armor, or you could make an on the spot decision as the GM.

[Storn]

I think that leather armor, against any kind of killing attack becomes DMG reduction..allowing full PD vs. the Stun, but not adding any of itself.

Just my 2 cents.

[mudpyr8]

You mean Damage Resistance.

I like that idea, but would it have to be limited. I mean, if I have 8 PD and put on leather I am now as tough as plate?

[Old Man]

Originally posted by Storn
I think that leather armor, against any kind of killing attack becomes DMG reduction..allowing full PD vs. the Stun, but not adding any of itself.

Just my 2 cents.

Interesting idea. But how much Damage Reduction do you get?

Do other types of armor provide as much or more Damage Reduction? or do they just provide Defense?

[Storn]

Yup, Dmg Resist, not Reduce... sorry.

I think 2 PD Dmg Resist would be fine, except vs. Stun, you would actually add the 2 to your natural PD for purposes of Stun only.

Leather can prevent you from getting killed, or a sword/arrow thrust from going through you, but that is all it does. There isn't much force absorbtion there.

Padded under chain is a bit different. IMO.

[Markdoc]

If you were talking about a heavy leather coat, Storn, I might agree with you but leather armour is normally both much, much thicker and also padded. We know from historical accounts that both leather and cotton armour were cappable of stopping arrows.

So I'm happy with 2 DEF.

Cheers, Mark

[Grymlynn]

Hey, let's keep this going. We need to work on this so we can get some house rules together. Granted, we may not always want to use them, but it wil be great to have the option.