Multipower slot swapping and abuse

[DarkGreen]

I thought of this due to the DD clone someone just posted. How do people deal with those who have multipowers containing both movement powers and attacks (or defenses!).

By the rules they could theoretically make a half move and then swap their points over to something else to attack/defend, but that always feels abusive to me. How do people treat this?

The "levels swapping" issue is similar, although in my group we just settled on the rule that a level can only be assigned one place per phase. As per the rules (reassigning levels is 0-phase and thus could be done after a half-move or skill usage) it can get messy.

-DG

[Fuzzy Gnome]

I'd do it the 4th Edition way - assign levels and MP slots at the start of your Phase or as an abort, and not at any other time.

[Monolith]

I did not even realize the point-swaping rule for Multipowers had changed. I have asked Steve about it in the Rules forum to confirm this. It might just have been an oversight.

[Acroyear]

Your concerns might be less scary than you think. One must remember that when a character acts, they aren't in a total vacuum. It's poor tactics to switch MP slots to extremes if you rely on multiple powers within it. Both faster and slower people can be a threat.

Just a couple quick examples:

1) Someone could interrupt your action. So if you shift your MP to all movement and no FF, someone could really slam you while you are trying to half move.

2) After you complete your Phase, you're stuck. Switching it all to attack just before you attack leaves you with a useless attack power active while everyone else takes turns pounding on you.

[Old Man]

I never thought of that. It is kind of gross. I would think that something like this would be covered in the rules.

[Acroyear]

Also, one might consider the text in the MP description concerning switching allocation that reads "from Phase to Phase" to mean you can only do it once per Phase

[Monolith]

It was in the rules FAQ, only it was under Multipower instead of the Combat Section where Zero-Phase Actions are discussed.

Q: Since allocating reserve points in a Multipower is a Zero-Phase Action, could you allocate points more than once in the same Phase? For example, could a character shift points to his Teleportation slot at the beginning of his Phase, make a Half Move with Teleportation, re-allocate points to his Energy Blast slot, and attack with the EB?

A: Generally speaking, no. In most cases a character should only allocate Multipower reserve points once in a Phase. The example above shows just how potentially abusive allowing multiple allocations in the same Phase can be.

However, it should be noted that, under a strict technical interpretation of the rules, what you’re describing is possible. To say characters should never be allowed to make multiple reserve point allocations during a Segment could potentially impede a lot of perfectly valid and dramatic actions. Multiple allocations might be appropriate in many situations, campaigns, and genres. The GM might allow it as a campaign ground rule, as a one-time thing in appropriate circumstances, or as a trick occasionally pulled with the assistance of an appropriate Power Skill roll.

I would rule that it can be done, but only with a Power Skill roll.

[Keneton]

Worse than this was to buy up fasts draw really high and then use it to turn on and off your desolidification when attacked and still have a full phase left after everyone else is spent.

Even better is to full move martial attack using tunneling that closes the whole behind you so that you can have all of your levels in offense all the time!

HEHEHE!

The first is addressed in the FAQ but is still quasi legal. Regarding switching levels ina phase, so what. If you do it without a maneuver it is not persistant and you can presence attack them out of it!

[DarkGreen]

Originally posted by Keneton

Regarding switching levels ina phase, so what. If you do it without a maneuver it is not persistant and you can presence attack them out of it!

I don't get that comment about it not being persistant and presence attack. The thing I'm worried about is the scenario where a character's phase is like this:

Let's assume a heroic campaign (I know.. this is the champions thread... but it makes the point clearer), with a character on a horse:

Looks around (overall level in PER)
Half Move (overall level in Riding or DCV)
Looks around again (overall level in PER)
Says something dramatic (overall level in Oratory for PRE attack)
Attacks (overall level in offense)

Hmm... Now that overall level subbed in for many levels and is worth way more than 10 points.

-DG

[Monolith]

I am fairly certain that a Skill Level/Combat Level can only be used once per Phase. But this time if you want proof look it up in the FAQ yourself.

[MuscaDomestica]

I always wondered how missle deflection works with a multipower... There is a player with a big multipower that has missle deflection, he uses when he holds his phase... but it still seems horribly cheap.

[Keneton]

Your example takes more than a phase.

Perception roll (1/2 phase)
Half Move ends phase.

But lets say you did not make the perception roll take a half phase. One the level is used, it is used. If I hold, my levels are uncommitted unless I choose to place them. I can do so in response to an attack via Dex roll or an appropriate Fast Draw without aborting. Once committed, they cannot change. The same applies with say Find Weakness, once the skill is used you cannot then pull out your levels and place them in OCV. Spent is spent.

With the multipower example with the move 15' (half move of 30" flight) then switch to an attack. This also fails. It takes 60 active points of flight to generate a 15" half move. There are no points left to switch.

This has always been a touchy spot for me. Those who read my posts know I lost the debate over overall levels and powers on the old boards. Now many will see why I was correct.

Good thread Dark Green!

[Keneton]

In regards to Missile Deflection in a mUltipower, no problemo!
When you missile deflect your phase ends, how can that be abused?

Who cares what multipower points are unused?

[MuscaDomestica]

I know... The player is kind of annoying he hates the combat system so he makes a combat monster that ends combats quickly. The GM doesn't pay attention so the 10d6 killing attack ended up going through which makes almost all combats quick and uninteresting.

[DarkGreen]

Originally posted by Keneton
Your example takes more than a phase.

Perception roll (1/2 phase)
Half Move ends phase.

But lets say you did not make the perception roll take a half phase. One the level is used, it is used. If I hold, my levels are uncommitted unless I choose to place them. I can do so in response to an attack via Dex roll or an appropriate Fast Draw without aborting. Once committed, they cannot change. The same applies with say Find Weakness, once the skill is used you cannot then pull out your levels and place them in OCV. Spent is spent.

With the multipower example with the move 15' (half move of 30" flight) then switch to an attack. This also fails. It takes 60 active points of flight to generate a 15" half move. There are no points left to switch.

This has always been a touchy spot for me. Those who read my posts know I lost the debate over overall levels and powers on the old boards. Now many will see why I was correct.

Good thread Dark Green!

Thanks for the compliment Keneton. Now, your description of level and multipower use is how I typically run things - BUT sadly it is not the rules.

For PER rolls a fast patdown of someone takes a phase (pg 306), and the special version of PER roll for fighting someone invisible using a non-targeting sense - making a non-targeting sense work as a targeting sense takes 1/2 phase (action chart pg 237). The PER roll is typically a zero phase action if it is just to "notice something" that the GM wants to know if you see. My example was considering that the GM was asking the character to roll a PER roll to notice something.

Also on page 237 it notes that changing skill levels or a multipower is a 0 phase action. In the section discussing actions and the combat phase it is clearly stated that you can take all the 0 phase actions you want at the start of your phase and after a 1/2 phase action if it's not an attack.

This is borne out by the FAQ entry I just found (thanks Monolith, I gotta search that more often):

==========================
Q: Can a character re-arrange his CSLs more than once in a Phase — for example, at the start of his Phase (a Zero-Phase Action), and then again after making a Half Move (as another Zero-Phase Action)?

A: Generally speaking, no. In most cases a character should only allocate his CSLs once in a Phase. The example above shows just how potentially abusive allowing multiple allocations in the same Phase can be.

However, it should be noted that, under a strict technical interpretation of the rules, what you’re describing is possible. To say characters should never be allowed to allocate a CSL more than once during a Segment could potentially impede a lot of perfectly valid and dramatic actions. Multiple allocations in a Segment might be appropriate in many situations, campaigns, and genres. The GM might allow it as a campaign ground rule, as a one-time thing in appropriate circumstances, or as a trick occasionally pulled with the assistance of an appropriate Power Skill roll.
=========================

I guess it's easy enough to make a house rule as above, but the fact that I had a house rule is what spurred me to start the thread. I'm always curious if my house rules are fair or not and for all I knew, everybody else lets people shift their levels and multipowers all they want

Sounds like most people do what I do and the FAQ recommends it. That makes me feel better about staring down any players who get pouty and say "the rules say I can do this!"

Presumably this will all get cleaned up in sixth edition

-DG